It is coming back to that, but you still have so much going on that you need the open ports. I don’t gt why people fight IPV6 so much.
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net — https://j2sw.com - All things jsw (AS209109) https://blog.j2sw.com - Podcast and Blog > On Sep 28, 2020, at 8:34 AM, Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net> wrote: > > Why stray away from how PC games were 20 years ago where there was a > dedicated server and clients just spoke to servers? > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > From: "Justin Wilson (Lists)" <li...@mtin.net <mailto:li...@mtin.net>> > To: "North American Network Operators' Group" <nanog@nanog.org > <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> > Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 7:22:28 AM > Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 > > There are many things going on with gaming that makes natted IPv4 an issue > when it comes to consoles and gaming in general. When you break it down it > makes sense. > > -You have voice chat > -You are receiving data from servers about other people in the game > -You are sending data to servers about yourself > -If you are using certain features where you are “the host” then you are > serving content from your gaming console. This is not much different than a > customer running a web server. You can’t have more than one customer running > a port 80 web-server behind nat. > -Streaming to services like Twitch or YouTube > > All of these take up standard, agreed upon ports. It’s really only prevalent > on gaming consoles because they are doing many functions. Look at it another > way. You have a customer doing the following. > > -Making a VOIP call > -Streaming a movie > -Running a web server > -Running bittorrent on a single port > -Having a camera folks need to access from the outside world > > This is why platforms like Xbox developed things like Teredo. > > Justin Wilson > j...@mtin.net <mailto:j...@mtin.net> > > — > https://j2sw.com <https://j2sw.com/> - All things jsw (AS209109) > https://blog.j2sw.com <https://blog.j2sw.com/> - Podcast and Blog > > On Sep 27, 2020, at 9:33 PM, Daniel Sterling <sterling.dan...@gmail.com > <mailto:sterling.dan...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Matt Hoppes raises an interesting question, > > At the risk of this being off-topic, in the latest call of duty games I've > played, their UDP-NAT-breaking algorithm seems to work rather well and should > function fine even behind CGNAT. Ironically turning on upnp makes this > *worse*, because when their algorithm probes to see what ports to use, upnp > sends all traffic from the "magical xbox port" to one box instead of letting > NAT control the ports. This does cause problems when multiple xboxes are > behind one NAT doing upnp. If upnp is on and both xboxes are fully powered > off and then turned on one at a time, things do work. But when upnp is off > everything works w/o having to do that. > > There are many other games and many CPE NAT boxes that may do horrible > things, but CGNAT by itself shouldn't cause problems for any recent device / > gaming system. > > It is true that I've yet to see any FPS game use ipv6. I assume that's cuz > they can't count on users having v6, so they have to support v4, and it > wouldn't be worth their while to have their gaming host support dual-stack. > just a guess there > > -- Dan > > > > On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 7:29 PM Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net > <mailto:na...@ics-il.net>> wrote: > Actually, uPNP is the only way to get two devices to work behind one public > IP, at least with XBox 360s. I haven't kept up in that realm. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> > To: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com <mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> > Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group" <nanog@nanog.org > <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> > Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 1:22:51 PM > Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4 > > I understand that. But there’s a host of reasons why that night not work - > two devices trying to use UPNP behind the same PAT device, an apartment > complex or hotel WiFi system, etc. > > On Sep 27, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > <mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote: > > > This isn't rocket science. > > Give each customer their own ipv4 IP address and turn on upnp, then they will > have open NAT to play their game and host. > > On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 12:50 PM Matt Hoppes <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote: > I know the solution is always “IPv6”, but I’m curious if anyone here knows > why gaming consoles are so stupid when it comes to IPv4? > > We have VoIP and video systems that work fine through multiple layers of PAT > and NAT. Why do we still have gaming consoles, in 2020, that can’t find their > way through a PAT system with STUN or other methods? > > It seems like this should be a simple solution, why are we still opening > ports or having systems that don’t work?
