> They *are* settable within the interface. Just type ":set <tab>"
> (and keep repeating pressing tab until you get to the setting you want
> to change). :-) Of course it won't save the settings....
>
> Anyway, all silliness aside, what's different from doing the changes
> "within the interface" as compared to editing a .muttrc file? And you
> say that the example .muttrc's are too long and complain too many
> options -- that problem won't go away with having an interface?
It makes much more sense to be able to change something as you
use it rather than set options apart from the interface. This is
obviously much easier in a GUI where you can do things like change
column widths, move columns around, perform Gimp-style funky rebinding
of keys direct in the menus. And then have a preferences dialogue for
the more abstract settings.
<RandomRant generality="waytoohigh">
The problem (as I see it) is that .muttrc goes against the principles
which Mutt is following. Particularly in modularisation. The .muttrc
contains absolutely everything configurable in the program - it defines
the interface (keys, column presentation, folder hooks, colours), mail transfer
(sendmail settings, mailboxes which receive mail), personal settings
(real name, personal headers) and a few other random settings as well.
</RandomRant>
One way to make things clearer would be to have sections like
[colors]
[keybindings]
[mailboxes]
[lists]
[folder_hooks]
This would bring some structure to the file which it currently lacks..
It's good to have some structure once every few years..
> There is not that much difference in having an interactive interface
> where you can change settings, than having a config file. Both will
> contain the same settings if you use an example .muttrc, and if the
> example .muttrc has good comments then it's equal to having
> context-sensitive help.
You said the word - "Context". Interactive interfaces are much better
than a config file because you don't have to search through 280 options
in a config file, you can simply choose from the options available in
context. For example in the mailbox selection view it would be nice to
be able to add a new mailbox to read.
But again, this is all mostly much too hard in a text interface because
you have no room to drag in a new mailbox, have sliders etc.
Actually I'm forgetting the entire context argument and interactive
interface thing. It's just not going to happen and would be stupid
anyway.. But can I make two recommendations?
1. Sectionalise the config file to make the options easier to find.
2. Provide a graphical tool for newusers in the vein of fetchmailconf.
As Mikko suggested.
[...]
> Mutt has a lot of configuration directives, that's part of the reason
> why it is so powerful. No matter how hard you try, you can't make that
> "dead easy". Sure good documentation helps, but even that won't get
> over the fact that the user does need to learn things in order to use
> the configuration effectively.
That's a bad argument. Of course you are never going to make it "dead
easy". But you just keep trying until it is as easy as possible. And the
current Mutt configuration requires way too much initial effort to
understand.
> So you think it would be nice to learn things "little by little"? Sure,
> that's possible too, start with no .muttrc at all. Then when you run
> into something you'd like to change, read the manual and add the
> relevant sections to your .muttrc.
But it's very difficult to learn little by little with Mutt.
Because Mutt makes very little sense
to do even basic mail stuff the first time you use it. Apart from
sending and receiving mail that is. There are so many things that are
non-intuitive: using folders, the help (I don't consider three screens
of tersely described shortcuts to be "help"), and more (I'll think of
them later..).
The counter to this is that the Mutt user will already have to know a
fair bit about email to get anywhere at all with Mutt. i.e. have
configured fetchmail to get their mail from a POP server, configured
sendmail to send out mail correctly masqueraded etc.
(Sorry for the ranting nature of this message. These are my frank
impressions of Mutt after all of two days usage.)
Thanks for listening,
Chuck
