There is a legitimate use for top posting. Deletion and/or answer of message in 10 to 15 seconds or less.
The stunt is essentially the same as stuff in newspapers. The reporter writes. The editor puts as much as will fit in the alloted space and ignores the remainder without even looking. The readers read as far as they like and then stop reading. Top posting totally messes up any attempts at coherent follow-ups. Hmmm, does that expain some of the problems with media? If I had another point to make, I have run out of space in which to make it. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin . Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 5:41 PM To: misc@openbsd.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Non Developers allowed to ask questions ? >there seems to be some unwritten rule that users (not to be confused >with developers) are not allowed to ask whether certain things are >supported in OpenBSD or when these items are likely to be available, Nope--not at all. Stupid questions that show a lack of research and/or lack of supporting documentation (like a dmesg when required) are seriously frowned upon though. In fact such posts usually just get ignored. The minimal rules (for the record) are: 1) Top posting is nearly always bad. Consider emails you're sending as if they're being published in a book. Books make sense read from top to bottom. This is particularly important for logic-flow in the lists when multiple parties get involved. 2) Check at *very* least the following various resources before posting: http://www.openbsd.com/faq/ ftp://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/doc/pf-faq.txt (for PF questions) http://www.openbsd.com/plat.html (for your respective hardware) http://www.google.com (do at least the basic research to see if it has been discussed) 3) Holy wars and similar philosophical debates are nearly always useless. In fact aside from those for yanking out crappy software / licenses, I can think of not one instance where one has been anything BUT useless. Messages like that should go to /dev/null instead of the list. You'll feel better and so will we. ;-) 4) Never ask for driver or software support that doesn't include offers to provide: - free or at VERY, VERY least absolutely-no-strings-attached loaner hardware - offer to fund development Most developers have 'day jobs.' This ain't Microsoft where people punch clocks. These guys are doing this because it's fun and because they use it themselves. Asking for development of something complicated like drivers (especially for some old trashy ISA NIC for instance) brings no one joy when they themselves have no use for it. Follow? Most of them--like the rest of us sane folk--would rather be doing something fun and/or useful to *themselves* when finished. Last footnote: when requesting support, include _brief_ reasoning why (particularly in context of it benefitting the entire community) it would be good for all, and it's M-U-C-H more likely to get attention than, "Uh... anyone working on this?" 5) If you get no answer, consider it an implicit "no". For a dozen people to stand up and say, "no," makes no sense, right? It takes time away from coding and just makes noise. 6) Barring that, an off-list note to a developer responsible for something similar **may** also make sense. Particuarly if there's cash and/or hardware attached. >So where does one post questions *after* having read the FAQ etc C'mon. That depends on the question. If it's related to php5 you're probably better off with ports@; alpha specific comments should probably go to alpha@ and so on. >If I was a developer I'd be posting to the tech@ list woudln't I. Maybe. Maybe not. Many developers post things to misc. Think about your audience and who's most likely to benefit from your questions / comments. Any notions that anyone here is somehow beholden to you (that being the universal you, not you specifically) have got to go. By using the list, we're each asking for help from a tremendous resource of hundreds (thousands?) of people including the very developers themselves of your OS. We're getting support for the bargain price of free just for the asking. In exchange one must be reasonable. You'll never, ever get this from Microsoft or Cisco. There you'll get shuffled around on the phone for hours, talk to someone useless, get no answer, and more likely than not be $195 lighter in your loafers for the trip. As I think most fellow misc@ listers will agree, an email with such questions certainly *leans* towards being hostile or at least passive-aggressive / accusatory. I'll afford the courtesy of benefit of the doubt. With that in mind if one doesn't get the response one wants, chances are the answer is "no." Now it's time to look to consider marshalling resources for a hardware/cash donation if you *really* want it done or to begin looking for another solution better suited to your needs. For some people that means another OS for the time being; for some people that means another OS period. Best, Kevin
