I would like to believe that the solution offered by Abusix is a drop-in replacement. Adding the CFBL-Address header is not too difficult for most senders. But most sender systems rely on ARF reports, with the rfc822 attachment. Not XARF, with the json attachment. So there’s two standards to push.
Maarten > On 22 Sep 2023, at 00:01, Steve Freegard via mailop <mailop@mailop.org> wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > Aside from stating categorically that we're not interested in monetizing the > reports like Validity are doing, the only other thing I can suggest is that > you look at the history of what we've done in the past. We've provided the > Abuse ContactDB as a free service for well over 10 years (used by many places > including Fail2Ban etc.), we've contributed XARF to the community and are > providing Global Reporting, which is a free Abuse Reporting Service (of which > we'll be using 99% of the code already written to implement this Feedback > Loop functionality). > > The whole point about backing the Draft RFC is also to open it up as much as > possible. The current state means that you either pay Validity or you don't > get anything, period. They have the current monopoly and zero competition > which is why they can do this in the first place. > > I'd also like to point out that there is absolutely no guarantee that any > mailbox providers will come across to us either; that will take persuasion > from the industry, but we make it as easy as possible with this service, > they're effectively swapping one email address with another. Why would a > mailbox provider, right now, bother to put the development time into > implementing a draft RFC that (at the time of writing) only two entities are > using? (CleverReach and Onmivary with ActiveCampaign to follow soon), they > would also have the on-going management and approval of new CFBL-Addresses to > deal with as well. > > The point is; we can implement this pretty quickly with a few code changes on > our end to something we've already been working on for months and provide an > alternative to Validity and help get the draft RFC more widely implemented - > at which point with much wider adoption, it makes it far more easy (and > therefore likely) for mailbox providers to implement this themselves if they > wish to, or for other entities to offer a similar service should they choose. > > That's surely better than the current status quo and sitting back and doing > nothing, right? > > Kind regards, > Steve. > > > On Thu, 21 Sept 2023 at 20:43, Mike Hillyer <m...@mikehillyer.com > <mailto:m...@mikehillyer.com>> wrote: >> I think the first question anyone will ask is "How do we know that Abusix >> won't eventually become Validity 2: the Abusix Remix"? I do like the idea of >> pushing the RFC, but if you're in the middle many of those MBPs will likely >> defer to a new middle-man to handle the implementation, and we're back at a >> single vendor. >> >> Mike >> From: mailop <mailop-boun...@mailop.org <mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org>> >> on behalf of Steve Freegard via mailop <mailop@mailop.org >> <mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> >> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 12:05 PM >> To: Support 3Hound <supp...@3hound.com <mailto:supp...@3hound.com>> >> Cc: mailop@mailop.org <mailto:mailop@mailop.org> <mailop@mailop.org >> <mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> >> Subject: Re: [mailop] New Validity policy for paid FBL (ARF) >> >> Just saw this thread; I published this earlier today and we're likely going >> to discuss it at M3AAWG: https://abusix.com/feedback-loops/ >> >> TLDR; Abusix is willing to take this on and provide it as a free service >> from any mailbox provider that wishes to participate, but we'll do it based >> on the Independent RFC Draft using CFBL-Address, so we don't just end up >> swapping out Validity for us, we help adopt a standard that any mailbox >> provider can use going forward if they wish. >> Putting us in the middle just means that we take on the burden of >> processing, wrapping and delivering the reports and approving the >> CFBL-Addresses that can receive them and producing some high-level >> statistics that might be interesting at the same time. >> >> Kind regards, >> Steve. >> >> >> On Mon, 11 Sept 2023 at 12:29, Support 3Hound via mailop <mailop@mailop.org >> <mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> wrote: >> Dear list, >> I would like to understand what the community think about the new Validity >> universal feedback loop service that is switching to a paid service starting >> 21 September 2023. >> >> As Validity worked in the the last years to achieve the management of the >> FBL service from all the "main" country-level and international mailbox >> providers (as the "universal" word suggest), I think that this new policy is >> unfair and a very bad news for the mail operators community. >> >> During years the FBL became a kind of "safe feature" for users that prefer >> to click "junk" or "spam" and be sure they will not receive anymore. >> >> The "one click unsubscribe/ List-unsubscribe header" should be the right way >> to do that... true! But this is not the focus, everyone know that FBL are >> -de facto- used like that from users and that they are honored from correct >> sender. >> >> FBL generates also a good data flow for the mailbox provider that may filter >> the "next e-mail" from a sender that don't honor the FBL (or can't act >> realtime the unsubcribe) generating a better service for the end user and a >> way to identify good player and bad ones. >> >> Switching to a paid service bring these metrics to fails; rich spammer may >> easily honor them getting a better reputation than a little correct player. >> >> It also means that it's needed to buy a paid service from a private company >> to follows best practices, something that seems to be unfair. >> >> But... as any collaborating service it's based on other peers/nodes/players >> so my question is: how mail players will act in this scenario? >> >> For example, if every mailbox is going to reactivate his own service to get >> back the control of their FBL, it will not have just a short term impact... >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mailop mailing list >> mailop@mailop.org <mailto:mailop@mailop.org> >> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop >> >> >> -- >> Steve Freegard >> | >> Senior Product Owner >> T. >> >> +44 7740 364348 >> abusix.com >> <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDzZTf64_AIC7pyl-xmo2L5eYJtYu1PnTYrDUUBmQW-VxiqyfDuPS_3WZnIEFz1xocGdBhnxAEyhHhg3_G29KPX5gu0-0JxXoL3Lw4zV1rZI4zA5EgDWnGc90iUX1HRTDIs=> >> >> Book a meeting >> <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDzdypi6WPqhVkFKkuLiMX0pY_5fawxs7P25-lwfZUyr7w==> >> >> >> >> <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDyIo6EwBskR6pg3M12nuwEx_9G03qmurLHy8H_IjsK3cg==> >> >> >> <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDweOZAf2SFcCyyLHlLyd4j2GB_p_YWWJ_3WJxEqTQND2A==> >> >> >> <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDz5UNyOTEm_EvRFXdshn5-xBpkDGWEZYln2qrkxaFuQc-FVdHa5XQ8gkUA8UK9te-A=> >> >> >> <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDyEop3qI2i2HFrm2U65Sd5oxcB4tERwhAI5MzR-NKIKtw==> >> >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are confidential and may also >> be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the >> named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose >> the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the >> information in any medium. >> >> You’ll find further information about privacy here >> <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDwp6TTQAR8uw54LR3mph76uODAm2MU0ep-sVltZqsar_A==>. >> > > > -- > Steve Freegard > | > Senior Product Owner > T. > > +44 7740 364348 > abusix.com > <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDzZTf64_AIC7pyl-xmo2L5eYJtYu1PnTYrDUUBmQW-VxiqyfDuPS_3WZnIEFz1xocGdBhnxAEyhHhg3_G29KPX5gu0-0JxXoL3Lw4zV1rZI4zA5EgDWnGc90iUX1HRTDIs=> > > Book a meeting > <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDzdypi6WPqhVkFKkuLiMX0pY_5fawxs7P25-lwfZUyr7w==> > > > > <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDyIo6EwBskR6pg3M12nuwEx_9G03qmurLHy8H_IjsK3cg==> > > > <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDweOZAf2SFcCyyLHlLyd4j2GB_p_YWWJ_3WJxEqTQND2A==> > > > <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDz5UNyOTEm_EvRFXdshn5-xBpkDGWEZYln2qrkxaFuQc-FVdHa5XQ8gkUA8UK9te-A=> > > > <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDyEop3qI2i2HFrm2U65Sd5oxcB4tERwhAI5MzR-NKIKtw==> > > > CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are confidential and may also > be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the > named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the > contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the > information in any medium. > > You’ll find further information about privacy here > <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDwp6TTQAR8uw54LR3mph76uODAm2MU0ep-sVltZqsar_A==>. > > _______________________________________________ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org <mailto:mailop@mailop.org> > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
_______________________________________________ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
