I've tried to convey before, but never got a lot of traction. There's a huge disconnect with Microsoft (Yahoo, Gmail, whoever else you want to clump in here) between an OWNER of an IP address and a USER of an IP address.
Sure, the issues with OVH and their IP addressing space certainly has merit. But forget about labeling this as an OVH problem for the moment. Consider just any datacenter or hosting provider, they might own the IP addresses sending mail, but they're not actually the ones USING the IP addresses. True, it's their customers and you can make the argument that the buck has to stop some where. But what I'm saying is that Microsoft (and I'm really not meaning to single out Microsoft here, it's just the one being mentioned in this topic) refuses (or is less inclined) to deal with the USER of an IP address and instead only deals with the OWNER of the IP address. In hosting, datacenter renting, situations where we're discussing OVH and Vultr and other providers, the OWNER of the IP address doesn't necessarily have the same interest as the USER of the IP address in terms of mail deliverability. Now, it's certainly true that if a spammer is the "USER" of the IP address, then they are less likely to worry about the IP reputation damage they cause and will just move on to another server or IP address. But there are legitimate "USERS" that really want to keep the IP address they are USING clean and in a solid reputation. I don't think Microsoft and these other large ESPs really understand that. I'll end this little soapbox rant acknowledging that I don't really have a solution to this. How is Microsoft supposed to know that a USER of an IP address is a well-respected and legitimate individual or company and not a spammer? That's certainly a valid question, but just because a question doesn't have an immediate answer doesn't mean it's not a relevant question. Would time be better spent trying to solve this hurdle? If real, legitimate IP address USERS could be identified then they can address more problematic spam incidents with more details. Otherwise, you get stuck in the rut of "someone, some where, some time, from some of the IPs that look like yours sent a spam message, so we're just going to block everybody now" and there's no hope for ever getting the real culprit caught. On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 10:59 AM Ignacio García via mailop < mailop@mailop.org> wrote: > Hi there and thank you all for your comments. > > > Certainly, you're all right on your opinions about OVH. In fact, we've > been considering moving to a different platform some times but, until > now, we hadn't had real motives to do so. We've had decent support and > never had, in the past, big issues with their service. We'll see now how > we solve this, because... > > > ...the most stupid situation arises here now: as I metioned earlier > today we're having problems delivering to Hotmail. I just realized a > couple of minutes ago this is only happening when using my server > assigned's failover IP. I just switched to the default IP: changed > postfix outbound IP and MX DNS entry for my testing domain (we use SPF, > DKIM and DMARC) and messages get delivered to the Hotmail's INBOX > directly, not going to the SPAM folder! I hadn't that IP added to the > SNDS cause we just use the failover IP. Microsoft likes that IP. Time to > complain to OVH and ask for a different failover IP. > > > Thanks for your recommendation on Vultr. Any others you can also > recommend are also appreciated. > > > And, of course, I want to thank you all again for your help and quick > response > > > Best wishes!!! > > > Ignacio > > > El 25/2/21 a las 16:43, Michael Peddemors via mailop escribió: > > +1, not only are they one of the most reported IP Spaces, but their > > abuse teams are slow to respond, and they don't assist customers with > > reputation problems. AS well, they don't keep up their SWIP/rwhois > > very well. And when a snowshoe spammer lights up, it is usually very > > high volume that they get out. > > > > Just sorry for the legitimate customers using them, as they have a lot > > of bad neighbours. I think this is something that the Canadian CASL > > teams should look at. > > > > Also, speaking of whois, pet peeve that some of the whois databases > > never seem to be updated/cleaned up. > > > > whois 51.79.55.200 > > > > Still thinks RIPE is responsible.. > > > > whois 51.79.55.200 -h whois.arin.net > > > > But it's actually now in ARIN hands.. > > > > On 2021-02-25 12:58 a.m., Rob Kendrick via mailop wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 09:41:36AM +0100, Ignacio García via mailop > >> wrote: > >>> From your experience, how long may it take to MS to allow > >>> communications from those IPs? Is there anything else we can do to > >>> to help solve this situation? > >> > >> Don't use OVH. They have a terrible reputation and are widely blocked > >> at the AS level. One week last year, 15% of the spam we refused was > >> from OVH. Banning them wholesale is an easy decision for many > >> administrators. It will take OVH years to fix this reputation problem, > >> and while they do, you will have deliverability problems. > >> > >>> I know OVH's not a favorite among pros, but for me, their dedicated > >>> servers work well and aren't very expensive. Can anybody recommend > >>> a somewhat similar solution with a better IP segments reputation? > >> > >> Their cheapness is partially the problem. Laxness is another part. > >> Perhaps you could have a machine or three at a respectable provider and > >> push all your outgoing mail through them, keeping the bulk at OVH? > >> > >> B. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> mailop mailing list > >> mailop@mailop.org > >> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop > >> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop >
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