Chris- I'm from Yahoo/AOL/VMG.
I just helped him and help lots of people who contact me from mailop so perhaps adjust your commentary accordingly. Thanks. Lili On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 6:23 PM Chris Woods via mailop <mailop@mailop.org> wrote: > > On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 21:46, Simon Arlott via mailop <mailop@mailop.org> > wrote: > >> Could someone from Microsoft and Yahoo help me resolve this issue with >> 209.16.157.42? >> >> 550 5.7.1 Unfortunately, messages from [209.16.157.42] weren't sent. >> Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their >> network is on our block list (S3150). You can also refer your provider >> to http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors >> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx*errors__;Iw!!Op6eflyXZCqGR5I!R3qhcZJN_YDLbekOSswUSscL5xgx0gzNxz5H8QxqHruRwZE_pCJhJIH1o6kAFI5m4j-1snM$> >> . >> [AM5EUR02FT039.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com >> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://AM5EUR02FT039.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com__;!!Op6eflyXZCqGR5I!R3qhcZJN_YDLbekOSswUSscL5xgx0gzNxz5H8QxqHruRwZE_pCJhJIH1o6kAFI5mFm8G66Y$> >> ] >> >> 553 5.7.2 [TSS09] All messages from 209.16.157.42 will be permanently >> deferred; Retrying will NOT succeed. See >> https://help.yahoo.com/kb/postmaster/SLN3436.html >> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://help.yahoo.com/kb/postmaster/SLN3436.html__;!!Op6eflyXZCqGR5I!R3qhcZJN_YDLbekOSswUSscL5xgx0gzNxz5H8QxqHruRwZE_pCJhJIH1o6kAFI5m66zn4s0$> >> >> >> The /24 network that the server is located in was purchased and moved >> from ARIN to RIPE on 2020-06-30 [1]. (Our new ISP was unable to supply >> more than 1 IPv4 address.) >> >> The network hasn't been routed since 209.16.128.0/18 >> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://209.16.128.0/18__;!!Op6eflyXZCqGR5I!R3qhcZJN_YDLbekOSswUSscL5xgx0gzNxz5H8QxqHruRwZE_pCJhJIH1o6kAFI5mZNahAXM$> >> was advertised >> until 2017-12 by the original legacy IP holder [2]. >> >> None of the IPs are on any DNS lists, so I can only assume there's some >> kind of "newly announced" restriction or "route origin changed" check >> that is preventing it from being allowed to send any email. >> >> >> Microsoft was previously returning 4xx for 47 hours and then either >> disappearing the email or delivering it to Spam but now just returns >> 5xx. Yahoo has always returned 5xx. Google are accepting messages. >> >> The advice in the URLs in the error messages are meaningless because I >> have no "outgoing emails" to review if they're never accepted. This >> domain has SPF/DKIM/DMARC configured and the network is registered with >> SNDS/JMRP. >> >> I don't get anything but automated or template responses from Microsoft >> or Yahoo support. >> >> >> I have 5 users in total (including myself) and don't operate any mailing >> lists. This issue is frustrating when emails to Sky/AOL/Hotmail/etc. all >> bounce. >> >> >> >> >> >> 1. Aside from the creation date in RIPE WHOIS, here's the RIPE list of >> IPv4 transfers for proof that this was transferred (and when): >> >> >> https://www-static.ripe.net/dynamic/table-of-transfers/inter-rir/incoming-ipv4.json >> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www-static.ripe.net/dynamic/table-of-transfers/inter-rir/incoming-ipv4.json__;!!Op6eflyXZCqGR5I!R3qhcZJN_YDLbekOSswUSscL5xgx0gzNxz5H8QxqHruRwZE_pCJhJIH1o6kAFI5mx4dJcbg$> >> >> {"transferred_blocks":"209.16.157.0/24 >> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://209.16.157.0/24__;!!Op6eflyXZCqGR5I!R3qhcZJN_YDLbekOSswUSscL5xgx0gzNxz5H8QxqHruRwZE_pCJhJIH1o6kAFI5m2OfnUI8$>", >> "date":"30/06/2020", >> "transferType":"POLICY", "from_rir":"ARIN", >> "to_organisation":"Edinburgh Hacklab Ltd"} >> >> 2. https://stat.ripe.net/209.16.157.0%2F24#tabId=routing >> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://stat.ripe.net/209.16.157.0*2F24*tabId=routing__;JSM!!Op6eflyXZCqGR5I!R3qhcZJN_YDLbekOSswUSscL5xgx0gzNxz5H8QxqHruRwZE_pCJhJIH1o6kAFI5mLIjR76Y$> >> >> -- >> Simon Arlott >> > > Hi, welcome to the low volume sender reputation club... > > See discussions passim where we've exhaustively discussed IP reputation > and deliverability problems, mostly to Outlook/Hotmail with cameos by > Google and Yahoo. The short, brutal answer: MS or Yahoo won't help and > don't care, unless they get complaints from paying customers. This is only > practical if you can get recipients hosted on Outlook.com or paid Hotmail > services to report incorrect junk classifications to their paid support, > and even then there's no magic fix. > > > Your IP reputation is neutral/unknown due to being a new traffic source, > which is often treated with suspicion. Also, a total lack of historical > traffic from this new IP and domains, plus whatever other factors are used > - you're penalised until you build sufficient 'good' traffic volumes from > your new IP and domains. I appreciate this is paradoxical. > > You'll also be penalised as a small operator, like many of us are. For one > of my customers (a normal business who has self-hosted email for over a > decade), It's taken me over a year to mostly stop sporadic auto-junking of > office correspondence, outbound emails to prior contacts, or even replies > to incoming emails sent to to Outlook.com-hosted tenants. All this was > simply because I had to migrate my customer to a new, clean IP - in a > reputable block, supplied by a quality company - whose sending domains have > 15+ years of history. > > > I can see on your IP that the basics like RIPE records and FCrDNS seem > fine. Provided you do all the other usual things (DKIM/DMARC/SPF) and > you're a sensible sender, unfortunately you may have to tolerate > permfails on MS and Yahoo for a while. Consider trying something > like making the first delivery attempt from the new IP, with a forced > redelivery attempt sent from a different 'good' IP you used before, to > gradually familiarise MS & Yahoo systems with your new IP, plus any other > relevant IP address warming techniques. > > I find many deliverability and 'warmup' guides skew towards > commercial-size email operations, suggesting totally unrealistic email > volumes for us as small operators. At the moment, self-hosted senders often > fall through the cracks of the reputation algorithms. Incidentally, are you > also able to try sending via IPv6 or only IPv4? > > I also have various Outlook.com/Hotmail accounts I use to periodically > test two-way deliverability. It's interesting how the algorithm sometimes > learns selectively which can be very annoying (emails are still junked for > other recipients, but eventually get correctly delivered to inbox but only > for that specific test account - after it's been trained with enough > incoming emails. Amongst the whale senders and commercial operators, at the > moment we're usually too insignificant to be noticed by the algorithms. > > For Microsoft deliverability, a frequent suggestion is to first go through > the automated helpdesk to report deliverability issues and request IP > mitigation. Complete the form at > http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866 > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866__;!!Op6eflyXZCqGR5I!R3qhcZJN_YDLbekOSswUSscL5xgx0gzNxz5H8QxqHruRwZE_pCJhJIH1o6kAFI5m5r6mSaQ$> > - ignore the first automated 'ineligible for mitigation' reply and state > the case clearly. At this point a human should review and, with luck, > 'mitigate' the IP - no other info will be given. It may not happen. No idea > about Yahoo but I've never personally had a problem with any client sending > email to their systems. > > Good luck, > Chris > _______________________________________________ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop__;!!Op6eflyXZCqGR5I!R3qhcZJN_YDLbekOSswUSscL5xgx0gzNxz5H8QxqHruRwZE_pCJhJIH1o6kAFI5meQ2d0L8$ > -- Lili Crowley Postmaster Verizon Media
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