Yeah, we get that a lot about the, "Don't really see anything..."
There are a number of issues with that, one of which is, being blocked isn't the whole story, as a lot can happen to the traffic from the time it passes the edge to the time it arrives at the mailbox server, and even until the final decision is made about which part of the INBOX to store it into, be that the main area, or be that the Junk folder. All of this can be short-circuited if the recipient has explicitly Safe-Sendered the sender. But that is ultimately the recipient’s call. All such traffic, once it gets past the edge ... is deemed received for purposes of deciding if any further mitigation is required. Thus the importance of replying to that human using the boiler-plate and stating your case. If the traffic from that IP is all transactional, for instance, that's always a good way to lead the petition. We are sensitive to the need for the tools to perform in a predictable and CORRECT fashion, and for the humans using them to be providing the best possible answers given our other constraints. We are looking into these issues on a number of fronts. So please keep those cards and letters coming! 😊 Aloha, Michael. -- Michael J Wise Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool<http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=18275> ? -----Original Message----- From: mailop <mailop-boun...@mailop.org> On Behalf Of Scott Mutter Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 6:46 PM To: mailop@mailop.org Subject: Re: [mailop] Outlook/Hotmail Blacklist Just to be clear - all of my issues are resolved at this time. I'm just replying back here because I think it's important to learn from mistakes and how improvements can be made. I don't imagine my opinion counts for much, but in case it does... > If you respond to the second email detailing the mitigation, or the lack > thereof, and don't receive an email from a live human (they'll use > boilerplate; they're required to), or you don't receive that second email > with the details of the machine mitigation... Well, the issue was - they kept telling me that they didn't see anything that would be blocking mail from that IP. Which, again, I don't necessarily doubt them... but the end result was still the same: my IP was being blocked. They would not mitigate anything because to them, there was nothing to mitigate. So I don't know what their procedures are for this. I kind of suspect that they just copy and paste an IP into a tool that spits something out for them and if that tool was returning nothing, then that's a problem with the tool. It's either not getting valid information or isn't checking deep enough. Secondly, if the human being that I'm talking to can't see why my IP is being blocked - and when I'm showing clear evidence that it being blocked - then that human needs to escalate the ticket up to a more knowledgeable human and it needs to keep going up until it finds a human that can see why my IP is being blocked. That does not appear to be what happened. I get that we all make mistakes. To be honest, I've actually been that human in this. I once had a client that told me he couldn't reach his website, I didn't see a block. He kept writing back saying he was blocked. It took a few emails back and forth, but I did find that his IP was part of a larger block and we were actually blocking him. It didn't take a full week to solve, it took a few hours, but those are hours that the client really deserved to be unblocked or have an explanation for. I learned from this. My hope is that Microsoft/Outlook/Hotmail might learn from this. Regarding the tickets being closed. I was told in a direct message from @Outlook on twitter that my tickets had been closed and that's why I wasn't getting any response. I don't know which tickets they were referring to. I'm sure I opened too many tickets on this. I'm sure I showed out a little bit in some of the tickets. I'm sorry about that. But under the circumstances... being told I wasn't blocked when I was blocked... that will get under your skin a little bit. Especially when we have clients screaming at us because they can't send to hotmail - and they all believe that Microsoft/Outlook/Hotmail can do no wrong, so it has to be on our end. So again, just to reiterate, my issue with this is resolved at this time. There's no need to spend time working on this. If you want to look at something, look at how the tools and procedures for handling situations like this are done with Outlook/Hotmail support and perhaps how those can be improved. _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchilli.nosignal.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmailop&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C9c54b5aff6394cf43a3108d6a68d79fe%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636879523908893716&sdata=JAFvE3BbQrF7cUEYjd%2Fk0bO3rGbcCPbUcIBGbdjteVc%3D&reserved=0
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