Hi Michael, Just curious and to ensure I understand correctly: You see email from well-behaving businesses (asking for the opt-in in a correct way, sending good newsletters et al, having good offline reputation) being flagged continuously as spam because people put in other peoples email addresses? In larger numbers (i.e. not one-offs)?
I've often wondered where the 0.01% to 0.02% base rate FBL complaints come from. I've always attributed it to people being lazy/hateful, pressing the spam button. Is this related? I've seen address quality issues where: - The opt-in was bad - The process of entering the address was complicated / manual - Form spam (DDoS type and other) - Specific customers being harassed by "people" who were mistreated IRL - Specific customers being harassed by criminals But not what you (seem to) describe. Much appreciated, David On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 at 17:03, Michael Wise <michael.w...@microsoft.com> wrote: > > > My experience is far different from yours. > > But then, I see the bad side of it all the time. > > Comes with the job. > > > > Aloha, > > Michael. > > -- > > *Michael J Wise* > Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis > > "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." > > Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool > <http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=18275> ? > > > > *From:* mailop <mailop-boun...@mailop.org> *On Behalf Of *David Hofstee > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 28, 2018 6:28 AM > *To:* o...@iki.fi > *Cc:* mailop <mailop@mailop.org> > *Subject:* Re: [mailop] Gmail - Anybody out there from Gmail, willing to > assist with strange reputation issue > > > > Hi Otto, > > > > It is not my experience that many people will fill in other people's email > address. I've seen 100's of millions of subscribers. Most did not have > double opt-in. It mostly went very well. There are cases of form-spam (see > e.g. Spamhaus a few years ago) and double opt-in prevents typo's. But there > are other methods to deal with abuse (in all of its appearances). > > > > So I'm not sure that your opinion towards double opt-in (where customers > not using it should be seen as spamming) is in line with the numbers I saw. > I understand the push from the anti-spam community (who have issues in > discriminating criminals and commercial senders having equally bad/good > data quality). But this technical solution is, imho, the wrong tool for > that. As Microsoft, Yahoo and Google have found out, feedback from users > via alternate systems is much better. But that is not yet integrated into > RFCs for the rest of us to use. > > > > I'll leave the "confirmed opt-in" vs "double opt-in" discussion as it is. > > > > Yours, > > > > > > David > > > > > > On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 at 09:02, Otto J. Makela <o...@iki.fi> wrote: > > On 2018-08-23 22:10, Jan Schapmans wrote: > > > * customer doesn’t want to do double optin, we are pushing to only > implement > > it for gmail & googlemail addresses. > > This should definitely raise red flags at your end: customer doesn't > care about how good the "leads" are, as long as there are many. > This is "Millions CD" level thinking. > > BTW, a much better term is "confirmed opt-in", because that's what it is. > Most companies that want to contact you by email can get it right (send > single > email with confirmation link as part of registration etc.), why should your > customer get a special pass not to do it? > > -- > /* * * Otto J. Makela <o...@iki.fi> * * * * * * * * * */ > /* Phone: +358 40 765 5772, ICBM: N 60 10' E 24 55' */ > /* Mail: Mechelininkatu 26 B 27, FI-00100 Helsinki */ > /* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * */ > > _______________________________________________ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchilli.nosignal.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmailop&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7Ce76da1e90a7c41a11ad008d60cebd67b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636710604417749119&sdata=MgWXNsaKH%2B3fxBnynsG7g60pRJliRJT2hMYuJllHlnY%3D&reserved=0> > > > > -- > > -- > > My opinion is mine. > -- -- My opinion is mine.
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