Hello David, I'll just add a comment stating that I also got a 17-key numeric keypad when I first wanted to experiment with NumPad Commander on my Mac laptop -- the Lenovo 33L3225 USB Numeric keypad, which is compatible with Mac, Windows, and Linux systems. At the time, nearly 3 years ago, there was no previous discussion of Mac compatible external number pads on this list, and I wanted to make sure that whatever I got was usable, especially since I had no previous experience with external num pads. So the choice was conservative, since I was basing the decision on the the long history of Linux-compatible hardware from the IBM ThinkPad series, which product line was rebranded and sold to Lenovo. In fact, the Lenovo numeric keypad does work with all three operating systems, and with both the older PowerPC Mac laptops as well as the current Intel models. From an ergonomic design point of view, it is also very comfortable, because in addition to using the older style keys of desktop keyboards, which haver larger travel compared to the flat, chiclet style laptop keys, this num pad has a slightly angled design, with a palm rest on the bottom 40% of its length.
In your Mac-access list post you supplied links to the num pad you bought, and also to the ergonomic split keyboard you were purchasing. I'll just add that Goldtouch, the manufacturer of the keyboard, also makes an external num pad for the Mac that has the extra keys you want to use for NumPad Commander. I'm not sure how these work for Windows under VMWare Fusion, because Goldtouch makes both Mac and PC versions of their external num pad. I suspect that the number keys work the same way for both operating systems, but that some of the other num pad operation keys may not. I later got a Goldtouch num pad to check whether there was better fidelity with the NumPad Commander modifier key operations. The model number I have is GTC-MACB. I think there is also a white version with model number GTC-MACW. If you're interested in the Goldtouch numeric keypad, this basically uses the standard Apple numeric keypad layout with an extra row of four keys at the top. The num pad keys match the configuration that was available to us when there was still an embedded numeric keypad for Mac laptops (on the PowerPC laptops, and on the Intel MacBooks up through 2008). That means that instead of a double wide "0" key, there were two separate keys for "0" and comma. The bottom 5 rows of the Goldtouch USB numeric keypad (in the model for the Mac), exactly matches the placement of the Mac num pads, with a standard sized "0" key at the bottom left, and a "," key just beside it to the right. There is an extra row of four keys at the top: escape, tab, delete, and an Fn key that, when pressed together with a number key on the num pad, converts the functions to either arrow keys, for the keys above, below, to the left or right of the central "5" key, of the functions "Home", "End", "Page Up", and "Page Down" for the "corner" number keys. So the actions of Fn + the numbers "7 8 9", "4 5 6", "1 2 3" are: "Home" "Up arrow" "Page Up" "Left Arrow" "5" "Right Arrow" "End" "Down Arrow" "Page Down" As you can tell, Fn+5 doesn't change the central "5" key at all. Also, you must press the Fn key on the external num pad to get these combinations. Pressing the "Fn" key in the bottom left corner of your Mac keyboard doesn't modify the num pad key actions. I'll also follow up on Colin's earlier statement (for Mac laptop users), that it's possible to access the first set of (unmodified) NumPad Commander keys by pressing a key from the number row while holding down an arrow key. This was mostly discussed on the Mac-access list a year and a half ago, so if anyone want to read the posts, they're in the thread "Keyboard Shortcuts from Numpad Commander without a Numpad" that starts with: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/2010/000064.html The next 5 or so posts are peripheral (about people trying this out), so you might jump and pick this up at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/2010/000076.html I'll summarize the later bits of the thread to say that everyone did find this works with their laptops, and Anne Robertson could use this combination on a French AZERTY keyboard by pressing the unshifted keys in the number key row in combination with an arrow key, provided NumPad Commander was turned on, even though typing numbers on the keyboard itself requires pressing keys in that row with a Shift key. You do have to be careful which arrow key you press with the number key in any given context when you use this method. This may be more of a curiosity for Mac laptop users, but well before Keyboard Commander made its appearance, I could customize the NumPad Commander options to make the "=" set to "Start Interacting with Item". Then I could press "="+Down arrow to start interacting with an item, for example. The point is that this will work even in Leopard, where you don't have access to TrackPad Commander, Keyboard Commander, etc. David, the previous paragraph is not relevant for desktop Mac users, but if you want to read my original post in 2009 on testing external num pads you can follow the links from the Mail Archive post: • Re: Looking for recommendations of external keyboards http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries%40googlegroups.com/msg32801.html or you can read the Google groups link for February 2009: http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries/msg/3d6147fe14a021e1 This last post contains a still-working direct link for the Lenovo num pad, although it can easily be ordered through other sources. I've looked up the models for ergonomic keyboard and numpad that you linked in your summary post to the Mac-access list, and frankly I'm shocked by how high the price is (£182 including shipping). I thought this was the VAT, but in fact, the price before VAT (value added tax for those in the U.S. who don't recognize the acronym) is very high. Even the main Goldtouch web site, which will ship internationally, sells this product for a list price of $129 (£83 vs. £140, both prices without VAT): http://www.goldtouch.com/p-63-goldtouch-for-mac-adjustable-keyboard-putty.aspx In fact, web sites such as Human Solutions, which also ship internationally, will sell the Mac model of the "Goldtouch Apple Adjustable Ergonomic Split Keyboard - White" for $89.99 (£58): http://www.thehumansolution.com/goldtouchapple.html And they have a combination "Goldtouch MAC Compatible Keyboard & Kinesis Keypad Bundle" purchase for $129.99 (£84): http://www.thehumansolution.com/applegoldtouch.html The Kinesis num pad has a slightly different layout from the Goldtouch one -- a few keys like "/" and "*" are in different places, but apparently Human Solutions only stocks the PC version of the Goldtouch num pad right now. For completeness, I'll paste in the links you gave for the Goldtouch keyboard and other num pad you purchased: • For the ergonomic Goldtouch Mac keyboard (£139.95 without VAT, £167.94 with VAT): <http://www.adapt-it.co.uk/products/goldtouch-ergonomic-split-keyboard-for-mac-white-usb-us-layout.asp> If the above link wraps, as it did in your original post, here's a shortened link: http://bit.ly/sWly0I • For the num pad you got (17 keys, and not a Goldtouch num pad): http://www.adapt-it.co.uk/products/numeric-keypad-usb-beige.asp David, you might try writing to accessibil...@apple.com and asking about support for external numeric keypads. The problem seems to be with the way the external keyboard sets are identified to the computer, which is based on the other (non-numpad) keys in the attached USB keyboard matching a pre-defined full keyboard model. This also seems to be a problem with the Bluetooth numeric keypads. HTH. Cheers, Esther On Dec 18, 2011, at 03:42, David Griffith wrote: > Dear Esther > > As always a very helpful post. > I can confirm that after experimentation the numpad accessory that I bought > does indeed have the limitations that you describe. There is also a problem > on my particular device that there is no insert key or equals key. This means > that you cannot use the equals keys to bring up menu bars and you would not > be able to use it in Fusion for windows screen readers. I'll ha have to see > how it goes.I may end up using one keyboard for serious typing and writing > and another for navigating and housekeeping tasks on the Mac. I have spent > the serious money on the ergonomic keyboard now and this will I hope be > justified as I need to type 100,000 words over the next year. > I am sorry I confused you by posting to 2 lists. I posted to the other list > first but after a day in which there was no response I tried my luck on here. > > Regards > > David Griffith > On 17 Dec 2011, at 12:53, Esther wrote: > >> Hi David, >> >> I've been meaning to reply to your post, but was getting a bit confused as >> to whether my reply should be on this list or on the mac-access list, where >> you also posted this question. I haven't had an opportunity to do extensive >> testing, but I'll try to summarize a few points that may be relevant to >> using external num pads. You are correct that when you set up the USB >> device it will not be recognized, but that you can close the keyboard >> assistant and just use Numpad Commander. The problem that appears to arise >> is that some USB number pads do not maintain the ability to use the modified >> Numpad Commander combinations where you press a key on the number pad along >> with a modifier key such as the Command key, Option key, or Shift key on >> your regular keyboard. What I found previously is that when I turned on >> keyboard help mode with VO+K, and pressed key combinations on the attached >> external numeric keypad, then exited this mode by pressing the "Escape" key >> on my regular laptop keyboard or paired Apple Wireless Keyboard, I lost the >> ability to execute the modified Numpad Commander key combinations, although >> the unmodified Numpad Commander key bindings would all still work (and could >> be re-assigned or customized). I can also use the combinations which use >> the NumPad 0 modifier. I think the problem is that the keyboard setup >> assistant works by identifying a few default types of keyboards, and you're >> prompted to press certain keys to match these identifications. When you >> press keys on a keyboard that doesn't have the numpad built in, the keyboard >> definition used for your external numpad doesn't use the correct definitions >> for the modifier keys. >> >> There is an iPhone number pad app that will correctly do the modifier key >> sequences when your iPhone (or iPod Touch or iPad) is on the same wireless >> network as your Mac. It's Edovia's Numpad -- Wireless Numeric Keypad app. >> However, it doesn't really work well as a substitute number pad for Numpad >> Commander functions because the touch screen interactions are too sensitive >> now. As of a few versions of iOS ago (maybe iOS 4.2), you are prone to >> getting repeated key strokes when you use this with Numpad Commander as >> though you were holding down a key where you here a stuttered repeat. (When >> I first tested this app out in Fall 2009, I could use this for Numpad >> Commander functions, although it was a little awkward.) >> >> I'm not sure there's a really good solution to this, but if you're satisfied >> with using Numpad Commander assignments with only the NumPad 0 modifier, you >> should be OK. You might give feedback to Apple's Accessibility team on >> this. I'm used to using a Mac laptop without Numpad Commander, so most of >> these tests were done earlier on as experiments. >> >> HTH. Cheers, >> >> Esther >> >> >> On Dec 16, 2011, at 04:06, David Griffith wrote: >> >>> This topic drifted away from the original subject but to bring it back I >>> spotted a USB numeric keypad on amazon for £7 so decided to take a punt on >>> it. >>> I have just plugged it in an although the Mac was very confused by it and >>> said it did not recognise it as a keyboard it nevertheless works >>> perfectly with Voiceover and the Num Pad commander. I just closed keyboard >>> assistant and all was fine. I can now go ahead and purchase a Mac >>> Ergonomic keyboard and hopefully the masses of typing I have to do inn the >>> next 12 months will be a more pleasurable experience. >>> >>> David griffith >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 12/12/2011, at 12:49 AM, David Griffith <daj.griff...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have finally found a UK supplier who will provide a high quality >>>>>>>>> ergonomic keyboard for the Mac. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is very expensive compared to Windows versions but I would buy it >>>>>>>>> like a >>>>>>>>> shot because I am fairly desperate to have comfortable typing again. >>>>>>>>> However >>>>>>>>> there is one problem. The keyboard does not have a numeric keypad and >>>>>>>>> I am a >>>>>>>>> fan of num pad commander. >>>>>>>>> The suggestion that they have made to me is that I purchase a separate >>>>>>>>> numpad keyboard from them to go with the ergonomic keyboard . >>>>>>>>> The numpad keyboards they sell are standard PC USB devices but they >>>>>>>>> believe >>>>>>>>> that they will work on a Mac. Having found it impossible to connect a >>>>>>>>> windows ergonomic keyboard which is compatible with the Mac I am >>>>>>>>> suspicious >>>>>>>>> of claims that things should be compatible. >>>>>>>>> Does anybody have successful experience of using a separate numpad >>>>>>>>> keyboard >>>>>>>>> with the Mac? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> David Griffith >>>>>>>>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. 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