You referenced something called quick search, what is that?
Chris.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Laura M" <laura.mcgl...@gmail.com>
To: "MacVisionaries" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Voice over lag and other lion issues
Tim, thank you. I've been thinking this for the last couple days. I'm
not trying to minimise the difficulties people are experiencing. I'm
aware that I've been lucky so far and only encountered bugs that are
more of a nuisance than anything else, and if I were having the real
issues like Alex lagging during typing, or significantly reduced
battery drain, I'd be extremely disappointed. But even so, it seems
like every time there's any kind of accessibility hiccup, we start
questioning whether Apple's commitment to Voiceover has run its
course. I don't think for a second we should sit quietly and not let
them know about the issues we come across, but at some point, don't we
have to start trusting that they're actually interested in doing this
right? They've made almost every major product in their lineup
accessible out of the box, at no extra cost to us; they've got a
dedicated email just for accessibility concerns; and every OS upgrade
on both their platforms has brought significant Voiceover
enhancements.
I agree that the way Apple runs its betas possibly means more problems
slip past to the final release product, but I don't think that's an
issue related only to Voiceover, and it doesn't indicate a lot about
what their commitment is. For all we got bugs in Lion, we got some
pretty good changes too. Activities are already proving really useful,
and will only get better as time goes on and people think of different
uses for them. Non-English language support out of the box is
something people have been asking for for years, and we got that; the
VO method of drag and drop in Lion is a huge improvement on the
previous method. Even the things that I think could use a little work,
like single letter navigation, are still changes for the better, and
that's not taking into account features I haven't even really played
with, like the quick search function. When the next OS comes out and
there are no meaningful changes, then I'll start to worry. Until then,
I'm going to assume the genuine bugs will get squashed over time, and
they'll keep working to incorporate our feedback.
On Jul 24, 8:07 pm, Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hi,
I would disagree with the premise that Apple is getting sloppy as well as
the comment of Lion being riddled with bugs to the point of a Beta
release. Apple's commitment to accessibility is evident through the
improvements and modifications to VO and the group of Beta testers
involved in its Beta phase.
As mentioned in previous posts, most of the issues called bugs over the
last few days of posting are simply a different way of doing things.
Humans, for the most part, resist change. There are some exceptions but
most of us get used to doing things in a certain way and are set back when
things are changed/modified. That's partially why we here so much noise
about VO not being as good as JAWS by many PC users and many early
switchers.
I, myself, have been a VO user since its introduction in 2005 and each
time the new OS is released, I struggle with some of the new ways of doing
things. This isn't to say that each of my struggles are bugs in the OS
implementation, they are just hurdles for me because I'm used to doing
things in a different way.
So, in a nutshell, I take exception to comments on Apple's sloppiness. I
agree that Lion is slower in booting, but if I don't turn my Mac off that
often, then what's the big deal. I agree that there is quite a number of
things done differently, but, you still can teach an old dog new tricks,
and I'm game for it.
Just my opinion.
Later…
On 2011-07-24, at 12:49 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:
> Well said. Apple will sort it out. Until then, I've reverted to Snow
> Leopard, and I'll keep it until some updates to Lion have come out.
> Using a March 2011 Macbook Pro 13 inch with the I5 processor, and I went
> from 37 seconds to boot up in Snow Leopard, to 1 minute and 25 to boot
> up in Lion.
> Friendly,
> Chris
> On Jul 22, 2011, at 8:05 PM, Missy Hope wrote:
>> Amen! Very well said! I agree 100 percent with everything in this
>> message. Bottom line, we're paying the price for pouncing
>> on a new OS the day it came out. I'm sure that sooner or later,
>> (hopefully sooner), Apple will fix all of these issues.
>> Good night, all!
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark
>> Gilland
>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 10:50 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Voice over lag and other lion issues
>> Importance: High
>> I wouldn't so much say that they are losing commitment, as much as I'd
>> say,
>> they seem to be getting very sloppy. I mean, ok, here's my thing. I
>> totally am with all you all in saying everyone just chill. the only
>> reason
>> I'm keeping my stance so strong on this is the fact that look at this.
>> I
>> mean, this looks like we should still be running a beta with all these
>> bugs.
>> come on, lookit! We have some beta testers on here, do we not? Admit
>> it,
>> did you all see any of these bugs? If not, then wow. I apologize.
>> Really
>> I do. I'm then out of lign severely, and for that, I'm ashamed of
>> myself,
>> but, really, think about this for justa minute. OK, you all can shoot
>> me, I
>> know you may want me to shut up, as does a few people who we won't
>> mention,
>> but, if they and all you others will please I beg you, just! for once,
>> hear
>> me out for a second.
>> If you will, and will at least acknowledge me, then I'll perhaps shut
>> up.
>> Just let me have this for a sec.
>> Look, let's addres this from a fact stand point rather than a Chris's
>> opinion standpoint, ok?
>> this way it's more fair.
>> 1. We all agree this is a new O S, right?
>> 2. We all agree that things are very buggy in many areas, right? Uh dab
>> dab dap? Holdit! I'm not done, listen to me! I'm still talking. You'll
>> get your chance. I didn't ask you all if th3e problems can be addressed
>> in
>> a software update. I'll address that in a second. right now, we're just
>> looking at the facts. OK? So I repeat:
>> 2. Is it not true, that we all agree that lots of things are buggy?
>> Yes,
>> or no.
>> 3. Do we all agree that these are problems that should have probably
>> been
>> addressed at least to some extent during the beta cycle before the
>> official
>> release? Yes or no>?
>> 4. Do we all agree that most of these bugs can be delt with and
>> tollerated
>> to some degree?
>> OK then.
>> I think we all agree on all the above, so why such hostility toward me
>> and
>> everyone else on list by some members. Look, I feel you all's
>> frustration,
>> we just want things to work, but we also are getting frustrated at the
>> nonconstructive messages cluttering the inbox of many. But, there is a
>> delete key, and I assure you, things will die down once Lion is more
>> progressed. Right now, everyone is just kind of in that what the bird
>> state
>> right now.
>> do we need to chill? OK, maybe so, but, really people, do you really
>> think
>> that an O S should be this buggy before official release? I know you
>> all
>> don't like hearing what I'm saying, and it's pissing you all off
>> hearing it,
>> but that's because I am not afraid to speak my mind nor the truth. The
>> blunt truth is, at least in my view of things, Apple is beginning to
>> fail
>> miserably at there line of duty with accessibilty. Now, does this mean
>> I'm
>> saying that they are purposefully? doing this? No! Mark it in red what
>> I
>> say here: Ab, suh, lootly? not! I think they're just becoming more and
>> more lazy, maybe not wanting to be so involved. Maybe they're trying to
>> take on too much at once. I, don't, know! I don't know what goes on
>> behind
>> the scenes there? I probably don't, wanna? know! The point is, we
>> really
>> can't make accusations, can we! We don't know if they're really working
>> behind the scene or not. So, on the one hand, should we probably just
>> chill? Yes, but, having said that, is it mortally wrong for me to
>> constructively complain about observations I've found? Yes. Is it
>> justifiable to say negative things about bugs I find which we all knkow
>> exist? Yes! It's just an observation/opinion people? It's not your
>> spouce
>> who won't... umm... I'm not finishing that... LOL! ROFL!
>> You get the point.
>> So in my defense, I ask jpeole, please be more gentle with me. I'm only
>> trying to help you all, and make suggestions. I may come on harsh at
>> times,
>> I know I do, but for god sake, cut me some slack! I'm frustrated! Can
>> you
>> blame me? Are we not all at one point or another in life? Bluntly? Deal
>> with it, or don't read my mail! It's not rocket science!
>> OK, I'm not gonna keep ranting and raving about htis. I've said my
>> peace and
>> hopefully've been heard. Enough is enough, in all respect fiarness to
>> all
>> of you all. I rest my case.
>> Chris.
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group
>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group
>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group
> athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
