It's funny how this "old school" PC mythology and mindset still shows
itself from time to time. I just had a discussion with a group of friends
about the Mac and the PC last weekend. I was amused and astounded by the types
of ridiculous claims one person was making about the Mac and why Windows was
still a better option, and it got to the point in which I finally said
something to the effect that I felt as if I had been time warped back to 1995
by the garbage this person was spouting. I took pleasure in dispelling each of
his false claims one by one, and when he simply could not keep any foot hold on
his assertions, he suddenly wanted to change the subject to sports.
As the old expression goes, you gets what you pays for. If you want to buy
a $300 PC desktop or a $500 laptop, and those are in your financial means, more
power to you. I don't regret at all the extra money I spent on my Mac Book
Pro, and I'll never by another Windows machine again. I figure that what I
have spent on the blind tax over the years compared to what comparatively
little I've invested financially in my Mac MORE than makes up for what I paid
for the MBP when I could have bought a Dell or an HP for far less. However, to
each his or her own. Just don't justify or confuse personal preference with
disinformation. Despite the price of Macs compared to the low end PC trash,
the market share increases by Apple speaks volumes of many people taking
quality over inexpensive. Would you want to buy a car with a little comfort
and a lot of safety features. or one that gets you from point A to point B, but
will crumple like a beer can in its first accident. Your choice, of course.
Take Care
John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
j...@macfortheblind.com
http://www.macfortheblind.com
AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
On Apr 30, 2011, at 11:14 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
> Hi Aman,
>
> Interesting yet uninformed. Even without you admitting it, I would guess
> from your post that you don't use a Mac and follow the mainstream and archaic
> views of many PC users with respect to the usability and adaptability of the
> Macintosh platform. Your price comparisons are exaggerated and much of your
> arguments are flawed due to misinformation.
>
> • Yes, you can purchase a Mac Desktop for $2500, which is a pretty awesome
> machine, but you also can purchase a MacMini desktop for just over $500 or an
> iMac for about $1300, both quite powerful desktop machines. You can upgrade
> most of these machines from the basic unit to quite a powerful one. I can go
> to Walmart and purchase a Surround-Sound Audio system for $200 or I can go
> somewhere else and purchase a Harman Kardon system for $1500. The Walmart
> system will do the job, won't sound quite as nice and won't last as long, but
> will do the job. You get what you pay for. There are exceptions to that
> rule but holds true in most situations.
>
> • You obviously haven't carried or properly used a MacBook, MacBook Air or
> MacBook Pro. They are considered some of the lightest and thinnest laptops
> on the market. I can also remotely connect to my Desktop at home using these
> Macs.
>
> • I'm not sure where your concept of a narrow adaptability comes from. I
> have five Macs in my home, manage over 400 Macs at work and it would be
> entirely stupid to have that much money invested in something that does not
> meet the needs of the many users I support. These are primarily sighted
> users, although we also have numerous users with special needs who find the
> accessibility of the Mac platform superior to Windows on the PC. In fact,
> we've been using Macs for over 20 years and have no interest in moving to the
> PC world. Your arguments appear to me to stem from an age old stigma that
> many hardcore PC users hold, these arguments are out-of-date.
>
> • I also taught end-user skills both on the Mac and Windows for years. The
> skill-sets that the end-user develops by using either platform are totally
> transferrable if the end-user has a desire to do so.
>
> • Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that most screenreader
> venders expect you to purchase multiple licenses if you're using it on
> multiple computers. Many people don't actually purchase the multiple copies,
> but that is the expectation and, in many cases, the legal responsibility of
> the end-user.
>
> • If I read Brandt's post correctly, his primary factor for his decision is
> financial. He still is interested in the MacOS, and that is why he is
> considering the Hac-intosh route, so slamming the Mac in the manner you have
> is somewhat uncalled for.
>
> • If I break your post down to the nitty-gritty, you simply don't wish to own
> a Mac. In fact, that's totally OK and totally your choice. If your
> circumstances result in you preferring a PC with Windows, then so be it.
> Others may feel that the Mac better suits their purposes. It is an
> individual choice that each of us can make given accurate information. Take
> all the factors that are important to you and make your own informed decision.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> Later...
>
> On 2011-04-29, at 8:34 PM, Aman Singer wrote:
>
>> Hi, Carolyn and all.
>> I do not use a Mac for two reasons. The first, and most important,
>> has nothing to do with this thread, but a second, and almost equally
>> important reason is one which Carolyn's message below hints at.
>> Carolyn writes
>> The Mac is a totally different system, and built to some stringent
>> specifications. You don't see any Macs for $300 as you do for PC
>> machines. And there's
>> a good reason. They're worth more.
>>
>> I think they are worth more. That's not to say that they're worth
>> what is being charged for them, but if you're saying that a Mac is
>> worth more than most netbooks, I absolutely agree. The problem with
>> Apple is, though, that they don't realize that technology needs to be
>> adaptable to be taken up by a large number of people. I want a very
>> good desktop and an adequate laptop. That's because I want to carry my
>> laptop around with me everywhere. I want it light and I don't want to
>> worry about damaging it, losing it, etc. I can use my powerful desktop
>> remotely and everything works well. A $300 netbook is just the thing
>> for me. No Mac is. The wonderful thing about both Windows and Linux is
>> that they are so adaptable. Your $250 netbook runs Windows, and your
>> $1000 laptop runs Windows, and your $2500 desktop runs Windows. Your
>> plug PC costing $50 runs Linux and your $500 laptop Runs Linux and
>> your $2500 desktop runs Linux. Obviously, I could say more, but I'm
>> speaking strictly as a consumer. Anyhow, this is where Apple fails.
>> Their products are adaptable over a narrow range. For many
>> circumstances, what you want is simply something that will do the job
>> cheaply and reasonably, and that usually isn't a Mac. Sometimes you
>> want the fastest/best components on the market and here, again, Apple
>> fails because of its stringency. For example, SSDs were available for
>> other computers for nearly a year before they were available for the
>> Mac. I think what Brant is pointing out here isn't that the Mac is too
>> expensive for what you get, though that may well be true, but is too
>> rigidly expensive for certain users, and too rigidly cheap for others.
>> The fact that he finds the prices high is just a symptom, the disease,
>> if I may be so fanciful, is that a Mac machine doesn't adapt to his
>> situation. If you want the very high-end or the somewhat/very low-end,
>> you don't want a new Mac. If you want to spread your money
>> differently, spending more on certain components and less on others,
>> you don't want a Mac at all. Of course, that also means that your
>> skill set on a Mac, and this is particularly as an AT user, isn't as
>> useful because it isn't used on as many devices and at as many
>> locations.
>> Now, you may argue that all of the above is well and good for the
>> ordinary user but that it doesn't apply to the blind user because of
>> the cost of screen readers and other at. The cost savings, though, on
>> AT, have been somewhat exaggerated, in my view. They apply most
>> obviously to a person who has never bought a screen reader or other AT
>> before, and who wants something a bit more complicated than NVDA. This
>> person saves money, and gets capability, with the Mac. Others don't
>> save money quickly, don't save it at all, or take a cut in capability
>> when they buy a Mac. An example of where the financial savings take
>> quite a while to kick in is where people have already purchased a
>> screen reader, Say Jaws or Window Eyes, and are purchasing a Mac
>> rather than purchasing an SMA. Depending on the cost of the Mac and
>> the SMA, their savings may not kick in for anywhere from 2-5 years.
>> Again, people who want multiple computers, even if it is two machines,
>> can, because they need only purchase the screen reader once, end up
>> spending less on the Windows option over all. The more computers you
>> have, the more the cost of a screen reader purchase is wiped out by
>> cheaper hardware. Again, people who run Windows for any reason do not
>> save money except possibly for upgrade costs in their screen reader.
>> Again, people who want fairly simple computing can buy a netbook, use
>> NVDA, and save large amounts of money compared to those who buy a Mac.
>> My point, as if I haven't belaboured it enough, is that the Mac is not
>> adaptable in the same way the PC is, and that what I hear from those
>> who say that "the Mac costs more because it's better than Windows
>> Machines", ignores the further question "Why should I care if I don't
>> need to pay for a better machine?".
>> Note that where Apple has been really successful, they have brought
>> out devices which either push forward a category in its infancy (the
>> iPad and iPod), or fit into a fairly narrow category (iPhone). They
>> haven't been general purpose, like PCs are.
>> I should say that I know about, but completely ignore, the cool/other
>> emotional factors in buying any computer. I understand that people buy
>> the Mac because they feel that they're supporting accessibility, or
>> that buying mainstream technology rather than specialized access
>> technology is somehow important/beneficial, or that they like Apple's
>> design philosophy, or that their friends have Macs, and so on. I
>> acknowledge that these are reasons for some people, they're just not
>> reasons for me. I am not emotionally invested in any platform or
>> computer, a computer is a tool, and the only questions that matters to
>> me is what can it do and how much does it cost? It seems to me that
>> the Mac is still on the high-cost end of the curve, and that its
>> capabilities do not justify the premium charged by Apple which, as I
>> understand Brandt, is what he is saying.
>> Aman
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/29/11, carolyn Haas <chaas0...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Brandt:
>>> Couldn't disagree with this point of view more. First you're comparing
>>> Apples and raspberries.:)
>>> The Mac is a totally different system, and built to some stringent
>>> specifications. You don't see any Macs for $300 as you do for PC machines.
>>> And there's a good reason. They're worth more.
>>> Secondly: you're buying mainstream technology, and not having to fork out
>>> the price of a second machine just to get it to talk. Voiceover is built
>>> into the system, not as an adaptation of the system.
>>> As such, Vo is intended to give the VI Mac user a more accurate picture of
>>> the screen.
>>>
>>>
>>> Finally, even at $299, if docuscan works as well as we're hoping it does,
>>> it's still a third of the price of your krzweil or openbook programs.
>>>
>>> Sorry, but I believe when you buy a Mac, you get what you pay for.
>>>
>>>
>>> Carolyn
>>>
>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 12:33 AM, brandt wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi there,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, $299 is a fair bit of money, but how many actually went and bought
>>>> open Book or something similar back when ever for 3 ore 4 times more? My
>>>> biggest complaint is not the cost of software but the ridiculous prices of
>>>> Mac computers. I can and probably will go the Hakintosh route just because
>>>> of that.
>>>>
>>>> Warm regards,
>>>>
>>>> Brandt Steenkamp
>>>>
>>>> If you like country, oldies and the occasional modern track, you can tune
>>>> in to my show, "an Eclectic mess" every Wednesday afternoon at 3 PM UTC by
>>>> going to www.TheGlobalVoice.info
>>>>
>>>> Contact me:
>>>>
>>>> Skype: brandt.steenkamp007
>>>> MSN: brandt...@live.com
>>>> Google talk/AIM: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com
>>>> Twitter @brandtsteenkamp
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: E.J. Zufelt
>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 5:23 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: For those who can actually afford this, DocuScan Plus is now
>>>> on the mac app store.
>>>>
>>>> I know nothing at all about this app. But, I suspect that a significant
>>>> portion of the cost is related to licencing a OCR SDK
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Everett Zufelt
>>>> http://zufelt.ca
>>>>
>>>> Follow me on Twitter
>>>> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>>>>
>>>> View my LinkedIn Profile
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2011-04-28, at 10:05 PM, Matthew Campbell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Listers.
>>>>> DocuScan is now mac compatible and can be found on the mac app store.
>>>>> Don't get too excited though, unless you have $299.00 to burn on it.
>>>>> Hope this actually benefits someone.
>>>>> the Infuriated Matt Campbell.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
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