Thanks. That is interesting and I largely agree. It is exactly getting information quickly and easily and being able to instantly get at areas of applications that concerns me. Accessibility requires that the users knows where they are and how to proceed at all times, and VO seems very good at that to me, but usability is more. It's about how easy it is to do something and how quickly it can be done. That's important in so many areas of life that it does need taking into account.
I have a lot of sympathy for the ideas in VO since it makes accessibility much easier to achieve, but it must be pointed out that reading a screen through speech works very differently than by sight, and the screen reader needs to try to tell us the information a sighted person would look at without us having to navigate to it.. Glancing is effortless, navigating requires yet more fingerwork. Further, you can assess the whole layout of a screen visually, you don't have to explore element by element. If you want to translate a visual way of working into speech, you need to try to recreate that as best you can. Granted, that is why you get an overview of the different parts of the screen then interact with the part you want, that is a good concept in many ways, and you can also learn where things are. Oh yes, one other thing that Jaws is unbeatable at. I need different settings for different websites. Nothing else does that. For instance, I can hide inline frames, stop only some sites from refreshing automatically when that's inconvenient, have higher verbosity on some and lower on others etc. I don't need to change that every time I visit! Cheers Dave -----Original Message----- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:01 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Prospective Mac User I found this interesting thread regarding scripting for VO: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/msg09201.html On 17 Jun 2010, at 10:49, Sarah Alawami wrote: > You can have vo scripts but i don't find them necessary. > > As for curser tracking you can do that in vo. just press vo shift f3 to toggle that and it will remember where you are in a lot of apps at once if that is off. Toggle it back on and you should be good to go. and saving locations you can use hot spots that can defying what you want to do but they are not app specific sadly. > > Sorry I could not answer everything. > > Take care. > > S > On Jun 17, 2010, at 2:35 AM, Dave Taylor wrote: > >> Here are some specific questions on areas where it appears Jaws is ahead. >> >> 1. In messenger programs, is it possible to have a set of keystrokes that >> will read messages and stay within the history area while being able to type >> in the edit area at the same time and review that typing? I would want to >> have a feature set like the alt plus numbers and arrows in Jaws otherwise it >> would be too slow. This is one of the main reasons I haven't switched to >> NVDA rather than Jaws. >> >> 2. In Skype, I can get to my contacts or conversations list with single >> keystrokes using ctrl 1 and ctrl 2, and focus most other areas with similar >> keystrokes. In addition to the feature I just asked for in messenger, how >> easy is this in Mac? >> >> 3. This one is not a Mac problem, but is really important to me. I use >> several programs that make tasks so easy in Windows that don't work on the >> Mac. How much does it cost to buy Windows stand alone these days to run >> those on a Mac? I'm thinking of SpeakOn which makes internet radio, podcasts >> and all sorts of other audio things much easier and gives you fantastic >> control over speed etc, Kurzweil 1000 which though expensive automates so >> much of my mail reading by simply scanning and automatically reading things >> while I'm doing things, and programs that don't even exist for Mac like the >> VIP communicator for the Accessible Friends Network and VIP Conduit. >> >> It is also possible with Jaws for people to write scripts to do things and >> share them. Is this possible for VO? >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Olivia Norman >> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:13 AM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: Prospective Mac User >> >> What do you feel Freedom Sciencefiction and jaws provide that VO lacks? >> I'm just curious. >> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs >> >> On Jun 16, 2010, at 4:25 PM, cathyk wrote: >> >>> Hi Kolby, >>> I bought my MacBook Pro about a month ago, and am largely happy. But >>> there are a few important things to know. 1) VO doesn't work with all >>> programs, notably MS Word. I was surprised that such an industry >>> standard requires finding workarounds every time you open a document, >>> which isn't ideal when doing collaborative writing projects or comment >>> on hundreds of papers electronically as I do. Whether this is Apple's >>> or Microsoft's fault, the bottom line is that Word files need to be >>> "translated" through programs like "Preview" (which comes installed) >>> or Pages in iworks, which requires laying out another $50 or $60. >>> Some say the new freeware version of Open Office works better; I >>> haven't tried, so I'd love to hear from someone who writes and edits a >>> lot. Even if it works better than the paid version, I suspect other >>> features get lost - alas, you get what you pay for. 2) the >>> portability features seem terrific but you should consider which >>> environments you'll be wanting to access because at least for now the >>> Mac market is quite small in comparison to PCs, so the number of >>> computers where your USB settings will work is fairly small. 3) VO is >>> very good, but it isn't JAWS or ZoomText. Many of us dream of a day >>> when we can use out-of-the-box technology just like everyone else; >>> we're much, much closer, but that day isn't there yet. 4) The user >>> support is limited for VO. This discussion list is excellent, but I >>> still have a growing list of questions that people can't answer and >>> that are impossible to look up. Even the in-depth manual isn't *that* >>> in-depth. This means there's a kind of pioneer spirit to the whole >>> thing, with people figuring out this and that just like they would >>> sort out how to repair a wagon wheel a thousand miles from >>> civilization. That's exciting, hip, and creative, but sometimes you >>> just want a simple answer to a nagging problem that's still beyond >>> even the best macvisionaries. All that said, I'm enjoying my new >>> machine. >>> Best, >>> Cathyk >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 16, 2:10 pm, Pete Nalda <lpna...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> First off, don't worry about what may be going on at the moment, with the >> update. Mac OS is still so much easier in general to deal with than windows >> and its various screen readers. This may not apply for everyone on here but >> to me the choice was economical. Every time there was a new version of >> windows, I'd have to purchase a new version ("upgrade") of ZoomText. I got >> tired of playing that game. Every time I buy a new version of Mac OSX, I get >> a new version of Zoom *and* VoiceOver :) >>>> >>>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Kolby Garrison wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Everyone, >>>>> I am considering purchasing a mac book pro, and I wanted to know what >> satisfied mac users have to say about the pros and cons of mac and windows. >> I have been researching voiceover, and it sounds like a very stable screen >> reading solution. I like the portable preferences feature, and from what I >> have read thus far I do believe that a mac book pro will be purchased in my >> very near future. I will go to an apple store for some hands on time with a >> mac, but if anyone would share your mac experiences with me I would >> appreciate it. I know that there will be a learning curve going from the >> windows operating system to the mac operating system, but I am ready and >> willing to learn all that I can. >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Kolby >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>>> Egun On, Lagunak! (Basque for G'day, Mates) >>>> Pete >> Naldahttp://www.myspace.com/musikonaldahttp://www.facebook.com/lpnalda >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
