Very good poitns. Donna On Jun 7, 2010, at 3:27 AM, Gary Readfern-Gray wrote:
> While I agree with many of the Sentiments expressed in this thread > and, for the record, am a proud iMac owner, if this is true this has > got to be a sad sad day hasn't it? > > Which of us didn't start off on a pc with windows using a pro > screenreader such as Jaws or Windoweyes or Hal? Which of us have not > relied on such a screenreader for our jobs, if we're lucky enough to > have one? Which of us was not prevented from accessing the web until > Jfw invented the concept of the virtual pc cursor? (well actually, I > think it was PW WebSpeak but that's a different story). > > How would you be feeling if Apple decided that it no longer made > economic sense to support Voiceover going forward? Do you think they > have given us Voiceover because they want to be nice to us or because > it's cool or innovative? No, it's because they want to gain the exact > same strangle hold on the Government and educational market that > Freedom have had, and why not! > > So what I'm saying is this. It takes skilled professionals to develop > access technology products and while I don't agree with Jfw's pricing > model, we've all got to put food on the table somehow and personally, > I'd rather not lose skilled access tech product developers to the > banks or the oil companies or to whoever can pay them for their > skills. Why, because it impoverishes the Access tech industry. > > Brian's right, just because there are several free screenreaders out > there it doesn't mean that they fully support office or other > applications that people may need. I've been struggling with Voiceover > and both ProTools and Logic over the weekend, Let's see how ProTools > accessibility compares with the Sonar Jaws scripts when it arrives. > > So What we need is Great accessibility on all platforms and anything > that jeopardises that has got to be a bad thing. > > On 6/7/10, Bryan Smart <bryansm...@bryansmart.com> wrote: >> Window Eyes will get the Jaws refugees. They are the only other professional >> screen reader for Windows. System Access, NVDA, and friends are not >> professional. I know that lots of people that spend most of their time in a >> web browser and chatting with friends on IM will disagree, but professionals >> need advanced support for Excel, support for Word that goes beyond just >> reading raw text, etc. >> >> And, actually, Window Eyes will be in the same boat in only a year or two. >> You might not like high prices for pro level Windows screen readers, but >> that's what it takes on Windows to make something pro. Windows screen >> reading is a constant battle to keep supporting programs from version to >> version, as little changes in the program break your screen reader's >> previously great support. The screen reader companies make a lot of money >> off an initial sell, but, once practically everyone that can get a screen >> reader, has a screen reader, the market is saturated, and the only money >> that comes in is through upgrade fees. That just is barely enough money to >> keep going. >> >> As much money as they'd been losing, FS had given up on support for any >> professional apps, outside of Microsoft Office, for the last few years, and >> supporting that suite of programs as their interfaces are completely >> overhauled each version became a all-consuming effort. If they wanted to do >> more than Office, they'd need to charge more money. The cheap-o and freebie >> screen readers aren't charging, but then they just don't support anything >> except leisure software. >> >> Well, maybe GW Micro can hold things together for a few years with Window >> Eyes. If not, looks like blind people will be out of clarical jobs. Hope >> they all can move up to professional employment, or else they'll be moving >> down to SSI checks. >> >> Bryan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kaare Dehard >> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:29 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom? >> >> I feel as sorry for the stupid or missinformed employers who will force the >> job losses. There are other windows based screen readers out there, some >> with plenty of scripting capabilities, such as window-eyes whos scripting >> fits more in to the modern age. We can't expect them all to addopt macs:) >> but we can pitty them their stupidity if they don't see that the wold wasn't >> created in 6 days for the blind by freedom:). >> On 2010-06-05, at 2:21 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: >> >>> I agree with you. >>> Donna >>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote: >>> >>>> I feel sorry for the people who will loose their jobs. >>>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Courtney Curran wrote: >>>> >>>>> I certainly agree. Yay, yay, no more overpriced, unfair JAWS. >>>>> Courtney >>>>> >>>>> On 05/06/2010, at 1:19 in the Afternoon, Olivia Norman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> YAY! YAY! YAY! Goodbye Jaws! :) :) :) :) "Innovation distinguishes >>>>>> between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those >>>>>>> people who run Fusion on their Macs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" <ibrahim_gucuko...@sent.com> >>>>>>>> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00 >>>>>>>> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" <kawal_gucuko...@sent.com> >>>>>>>> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin r. Howard" >>>>>>>> <co...@pobox.com> >>>>>>>> To: <b...@freelists.org>; <access...@freelists.org>; >>>>>>>> <av...@googlegroups.com>; <ntexpr...@googlegroups.com>; >>>>>>>> <jaws...@freelists.org> >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Greetings, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind >>>>>>>>> Audio List which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or >>>>>>>>> AccessUK groups. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ought we to give much credence to this? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: "Otto Zamora" <donttreado...@bellsouth.net> >>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Morning, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference >>>>>>>>> Freedom Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw. >>>>>>>>> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on a >>>>>>>>> flag by an analyst. >>>>>>>>> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising >>>>>>>>> given the economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell >>>>>>>>> off some of their division, mainly their JFW area. >>>>>>>>> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering >>>>>>>>> that there is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for >>>>>>>>> only $700. >>>>>>>>> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to >>>>>>>>> get the package, there is a browser, along with a customed and >>>>>>>>> fully accessible web sites, word processing, and E mail. >>>>>>>>> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as >>>>>>>>> individual program. >>>>>>>>> ad to that, the entertainment mogill, and you have a powerful >>>>>>>>> tool indeed for the kind of money they are asking for. >>>>>>>>> Another side of the equation is the apple company, now selling >>>>>>>>> computers already with speech on board right out of the box and off >>>>>>>>> the shelf. >>>>>>>>> Put these two aspects together, and you have a deadly combo that >>>>>>>>> might very well result in a abrupt end to the JFW program. >>>>>>>>> Considering the way that technology is growing, older versions >>>>>>>>> of JFW, will only work for a short while until the programs >>>>>>>>> controlling the OS, begins to outgrow the application. >>>>>>>>> In seeing this package, one of the things which was pointed out >>>>>>>>> to me, was the learning curve, which for the new package being >>>>>>>>> sold by Mr.. Mike Calvo, is very short. >>>>>>>>> The user has the option to learn as little or as much as they >>>>>>>>> want without real loss. From: "Alison Trelfa" >>>>>>>>> <codamu...@uwclub.net> >>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:36:47 +0100 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello, Otto, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I wonder whether many jaws users would move to another speech >>>>>>>>> program as yet as many of the packages that are not standard >>>>>>>>> probably wouldn't be supported by the out of the box speech. I >>>>>>>>> run Sonar and Sibelius 5.25, both of which are using scripts >>>>>>>>> that have been written by folk who specialise not only in Jaws, >>>>>>>>> but only in the two programs. I suppose those people who only >>>>>>>>> need computers for basic commands may well get away with speech >>>>>>>>> such as you describe, but I don't think that Jaws would just be >>>>>>>>> dismissed out of hand because Freedom is going. I think Jaws has >>>>>>>>> changed hands once before if I'm not mistaken? Correct me if I'm >>>>>>>>> wrong there. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would be very sorry to see Jaws go under, but I'm not worried >>>>>>>>> yet. There is a huge following for Jaws and I believe that someone >>>>>>>>> would take it over. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: "Otto Zamora" <donttreado...@bellsouth.net> >>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:49:36 -0400 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You are correct, I am just stating that from what we were told, >>>>>>>>> they are having a hard time finding someone who will take on the >>>>>>>>> project,especially since as you point out, most people are not >>>>>>>>> using anything that is high end, and from what we also have >>>>>>>>> heard, people are tired of having to pay $1500 and change, when >>>>>>>>> there now is a program which will do speech and more for only $700. >>>>>>>>> Given the economy, for many people, the sedition may be financial. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Geoff Long <ge...@tisab.demon.co.uk> >>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 16:20:04 +0100 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Alison, I wonder how many JAWS users have to pay for their >>>>>>>>> own equipment. I use window-eyes, which is considerably less >>>>>>>>> expensive, and as I had to pay for my training and kit from my >>>>>>>>> own pocket, it makes a big difference. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: "Dr Norman Waddington" >>>>>>>>> <normanwaddington...@btinternet.com> >>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 16:36:22 +0100 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Geoff, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I need no introduction to you on this list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am a Jaws user and have paid all the way through out of my own >>>>>>>>> pocket from version 3.5 methinks if I remember correctly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se> >>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 17:37:37 +0200 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello! >>>>>>>>> Also we have nvda as a very good and free alternative. >>>>>>>>> And Hal or supernova which costs less money than jaws. >>>>>>>>> From: "Mike Stewart" <stewar...@verizon.net> >>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 10:58:45 -0600 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The entry price is steep, but upgrades only run about $100-$140 or >>>>>>>>> so... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: "Alison Trelfa" <codamu...@uwclub.net> >>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 21:31:33 +0100 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, Geoff, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is expensive to get jaws I agree with that. The problem I >>>>>>>>> have is that there are no other programs that support the music >>>>>>>>> side as far as I know. If all programs worked as well as >>>>>>>>> microsoft office or outlook express then I think Jaws would >>>>>>>>> really be struggling. Most of the other programs that I know of >>>>>>>>> don't support many programs apart from the basics. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From Colin Howard, for whom a small place near Southampton in >>>>>>>>> Southern England, has the honour of providing a home. >>>>>>>>> To find out more about BCAB and the benefits that membership can >>>>>>>>> bring, please visit our website: >>>>>>>>> http://www.bcab.org.uk/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To manage your subscription to the BCAB mailing list, please visit >>>>>>>>> our website: >>>>>>>>> http://www.bcab.org.uk/mailing-list.html >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To discuss matters relating to the mailing list, please email >>>>>>>>> bcab-moderat...@freelists.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ____ >>>>>>> Kawal Gucukoglu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (E-mail/MSN): >>>>>>> >>>>>>> kawal_gucuko...@sent.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (Skype ID): >>>>>>> >>>>>>> kawalgucukoglu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (Mobile/Text): >>>>>>> >>>>>>> +447905618396 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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