Hi, VoiceOver cannot detect languages because these have not been implemented. Furthermore, VoiceOver has only been localized since the release of Snow Leopard. VoiceOver has only been around since 2004, and that is very important to keep in mind. Despite that, though, In my opinion it surpasses Windows screen access in most areas. Flash isn't very important to me, since you hardly got any feedback even if you could see the controls. Saying that, the verbosity does provide a huge amount of configuration, actually. All you'd need, and I'm sure more is going to be added. In Mac, you don't need silly tooltips to be spoken when going through elements. Or help balloons. VoiceOver, or just APple's accessibility policy is different in that, if you want information, you have to look for it without the screen reader doing any handholding. This is why I think that the current level of verbosity configuration is more than sufficient.
When it comes to the selection of text on websites, it works the same way as it would if it was loaded into a virtual buffer, which is a downside if you use a Windows screen reader, in that it has to load it into the buffer after the initial page has been loaded. This takes longer time than it should. On some pages, when using the Mac, selecting text works amazingly well, and on some it does not. I am sure that Apple will address this, as it is an important feature to perfect. Keyboard shortcuts can already be assigned to all menu items within any selected application, as long as the menu title is written properly and as long as the item to which you wish to attach a hockey to is in a menu. It is important to understand that any accessibility delivered to VoiceOver users depends on Apple's framework, which is good in that in a lot of cases, the developer is not always aware of the accessibility of their application. The Cocoa framework ensures that a lot of applications work out of the box, whereas WIndows screen readers depend mainly on scripts. Also, that causes the scripts to break if a change is made to the user interface. The inability to access Flash is mainly because Adobe did not want to provide accessibility until now, and even then, it's supposedly going to take eighteen months, in which case HTML5 has probably kicked out Flash. And, it'll already work with VoiceOver. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Apr 8, 2010, at 1:05 AM, William Windels wrote: > Hello all, > I agree that Apple is doing great efforts to make their products accessible > and I love the mac for most of my tasks but the mac and the corresponding os > are not the only ones on the market... > They do good things like the integration of their screenreader in all of > their products and because of that , most of the tasks on the mac are logic. > It gives also a good impulse to the computermarket for blind people. > I mean e.g. the gestures on the trackpad of a macbook. This is something new > and very interesting feature that they have created. > Also a great advantage of apple and their accessibility-policy is the feature > that mac-users can give their feedback, questions and comments to a special > address. > I have the experience that they listen to us but of course , it takes some > time. > > but, and this is perhaps the other side of implementing accessibility without > paying more, > the mac is missing some features that are available on a winds pc in > combination with most of the screenreaders. > > Here , I have a list of things that I miss on a mac: > > 1- working with flash on websites; > 2- automatic language detection on webpages (like on the iphone); > 3- configurable representation of controls on the brailledisplay (this is > also good for people that have a little braille display); > 4- creation of a verbosity level where you can define which messages should > be spoken and/or which messages should be shown on the braille display; > 5- setting webspots in voiceover for whole domains (e.g. www.google.be) in > stead of the current viewed webpage (Window-eyes can handle this); > 6- dragging and dropping with the keyboard so that we can also cut elements > in the finder (and actions in other programs) > This is a possibility in voiceover to do that but I am not shore if it is > working and it don't give the same result. > 7- Selecting tekst in a browser without complex commando instructions; > > And then also 1 feature about the os: > the system of assigning hockeys for menu-items in the system-prefferences : > tab =keyboard , hotkeys. This system is not working all the time, not all > keys are aloud like function keys and services can't have a hockey in snow > leopard. > > I would ask to everybody here to send accessibility one or more of this > things that you find interesting or necessary. > Or you can give also other suggestions of course ;) > > If you do so, pls write it in your own words and not just copy pasting. > Otherwise , they will think that's something like spamming and perhaps they > won't take it serious... > > If you have a suggestion/comment to me, pls mail me private: > william.wind...@telenet.be > > thanx in advance, > best regards, > William > Op 7-apr-2010, om 23:01 heeft Ricardo Walker het volgende geschreven: > >> Hi, >> >> Lol. The Jaws example was just that. An example. You can insert whatever >> screenreader into the blank you wish. :) >> On Apr 7, 2010, at 4:43 PM, Nicole Hutchins wrote: >> >>> I have to somewhat agree with you. >>> I only disagree where Jaws is related since I'm an ex user of the product >>> and I can speak from experience that there are just too many things I >>> couldn't do with Jaws that I can do with Apple's screen reader. But yes, if >>> something better came along, I'd definitely be willing to explore my >>> options there. >>> >>> Nicole >>> On Apr 7, 2010, at 4:22 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I agree entirely. I think Apple has done great things regarding >>>> accessibility but, when you pledge lifetime loyalty to a company I think >>>> you are doing yourself a disservice. There will come a time where a >>>> company will just do something that will make the use of their product >>>> less justifiable or, something better will just come a long. If you just >>>> stick with them because of their name they won't work as hard for you. >>>> For example, If HP said all there notebooks would come with a screenreader >>>> like Jaws or windows eyes, and you get upgrades for the life of your PC, I >>>> think most sensible blind people would have to at least explore the >>>> option. If you like something buy all means it is your right to scream it >>>> from the mountain tops but, it can sometimes work against you as far as >>>> credibility. If I hear someone say I buy a certain brand no matter what, >>>> I instantly devalue there opinion on said product or brand. >>>> On Apr 7, 2010, at 3:45 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> >>>>> For example, none of apple's computers these days come with BluRay. I >>>>> don't need BluRay technology at this point so don't care, but everyone >>>>> else is making computers that have it. We can go on and on about things >>>>> that Apple doesn't give to their users. As of now, their products work >>>>> really great for me and I love them. But there is no reason for me not to >>>>> switch to something else in the future if I like it better, or is more >>>>> efficient. >>>>> On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Olivia Norman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> LOL! I do kind of worship apple, but I have a hard time wondering what >>>>>> products could be better than apple's for a variety of reasons, ease of >>>>>> use, accessibility, design, etc. I could go on, but will refrain! >>>>>> Olivia >>>>>> On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:30 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The thing is that some people find it cool to show that they are using >>>>>>> an Iphone, a BlackBerry or whatever. Some people just don't care. I >>>>>>> personally use Apple stuff all day because they help me to be >>>>>>> productive and they do everything I want them to do. But it has already >>>>>>> been mentioned before on this list that Apple is doing things that are >>>>>>> not all that good, particularly regarding patents. We can't forget that >>>>>>> accessibility should be a right for us, and not something that we >>>>>>> should be surprised to find right out of the box. Off course it's great >>>>>>> that Apple decided to implement VO on all their devices, but honestly >>>>>>> if something that I consider better comes out, I will consider >>>>>>> switching. I will not stick to Apple just because it's Apple. It just >>>>>>> doesn't make any sense to me to warship a company like that. >>>>>>> On Apr 6, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Bryan Smart wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yeh, but if they're using peoples' e-mail to advertise, they should be >>>>>>>> paying for that privledge. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What-ever. No one there cares what I think about stuff like this, >>>>>>>> anyway. *smile* I have seen Blackberrys do this, and I think that it >>>>>>>> is just as lame. If I'm sending e-mail from a free mail account, then >>>>>>>> they can advertise in my mail, since they're providing the mail free >>>>>>>> as an ad supported service. I suppose I just think that Apple stuff >>>>>>>> should be a little more classy than that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bryan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: macvoiceover-bou...@freelists.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:macvoiceover-bou...@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Olivia Norman >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 8:56 AM >>>>>>>> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org >>>>>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Apple Announces iPhone OS 4.0 Event for >>>>>>>> 08/April/2010-- The Mac-cessibility Network - News [Lioncourt.com] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well. Cell companies do it, too. They'll say sent from my verizon >>>>>>>> wireless blackberry, or sent from blackberry by AT&T. Marketing, I >>>>>>>> guess. I kind of like the word to know I use apple products, so it's >>>>>>>> Alright with me :) Sent from the future >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 6, 2010, at 8:52 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Coincidentally, why do iPhones and iPads always throw that "Sent from >>>>>>>>> my iPhone/iPad" remark in there? I could write "Sent from my Nokia >>>>>>>>> E71", or "Sent from my MacBook Pro"., but who cares what device I'm >>>>>>>>> reading mail with? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think its shameless and very noobish for Apple to put that in there >>>>>>>>> by default. Be prepared to see posts all the time with "Sent from my >>>>>>>>> iPad". I think that it will soon become a kind of kick me sign. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bryan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my MacBook, with Microsoft Outlook, over Charter Internet. >>>>>>>>> lol >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: macvoiceover-bou...@freelists.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:macvoiceover-bou...@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Olivia Norman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 4:39 PM >>>>>>>>> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: [macvoiceover] Apple Announces iPhone OS >>>>>>>>> 4.0 Event for 08/April/2010-- The Mac-cessibility Network - News >>>>>>>>> [Lioncourt.com] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Another piece of technology I. Will want! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2010, at 3:50 PM, Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowon...@shaw.ca> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <http://www.lioncourt.com/2010/04/05/apple-announces-iphone-os-4-0-eve >>>>>>>>> nt-for-08april2010/> >>>>>>>>> http://www.lioncourt.com/2010/04/05/apple-announces-iphone-os-4-0-even >>>>>>>>> t-for-08april2010/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>>>>>>>>> below. >>>>>>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>>>>>> macvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org >>>>>>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>>>>>>> interface at http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower", Steve Jobs >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. >>>>>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>>>>> macvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org >>>>>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>>>>>> interface at http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. >>>>>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>>>>> macvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org >>>>>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>>>>>> interface at http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. >>>>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>>>> macvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org >>>>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>>>>> interface at http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower", Steve Jobs >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. >>>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>>> macvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org >>>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>>>> interface at http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. >>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>> >>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>> macvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org >>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>>> interface at http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>> >>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. >>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>> >>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>> macvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org >>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>> interface at http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>> >>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. >>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>> >>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>> macvoiceover-requ...@freelists.org >>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>> interface at http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>> >> >>> >>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>> >>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. >>> http://www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>> >>> Users can 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