If you had not shared your workflow, I would have shared how I go about it, which is similar to yours, Christopher... Getting a hold of the engineer is key, but it does require lots of persistence bundled with an amazing amount of creativity. However, this is just the beginning, as they'll not be able to fix all accessibility issues overnight. It'll be best to create a top 5 low-hanging fruit, which will start you on a positive happy working relationship. On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 7:52 PM Christopher-Mark Gilland < clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I definitely do my best. LOL! > > I know that may have gone way over some people's heads, and might have > been way overwinded for some of you, but with all due respect to those who > feel that way, if you want success with this type stuff, you gotta be > thorough, so I was trying to give all of you my exact workflow for things > like this. Anyway Kevin, thank you for the kind words. It means a lot. > > Chris. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Kevin Chao <kevincha...@gmail.com> > *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 16, 2016 10:44 PM > *Subject:* Re: how to explain an app's inaccessibility. > > Thanks Christopher for the well-crafted thoughtful systematic constructive > actionable accessibility advocacy strategy... > We need more like you! > On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 6:59 PM Christopher-Mark Gilland < > clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Sorry, but, you did ask, did you not? LOL! Smile. No hard feelings. >> >> Although I'm sure by others, probably not by you though, , I'm going to >> get >> attacked brutally for such a long message. I already see it coming. >> >> I'm just waiting for the inevitable. >> >> Chris. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jessica Moss" <junglebookfa...@gmail.com> >> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 9:24 PM >> Subject: Re: how to explain an app's inaccessibility. >> >> >> Good lord, that's a lot to take in. Community first is one of the local >> credit unions in Jacksonville Florida, and I've been with them for about >> 10 >> years or more. Their app was completely accessible until about 2 updates >> came out, then that all went to crap, and now all the buttons are >> unlabeled, >> and what is readable I can't access. >> On Feb 16, 2016, at 3:29 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland >> <clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > So, do what I've had to do for developers to make them fix things. Most >> > devs I've found that don't seem to listen, not that that's your case >> here, >> > but still, this method might apply, what I do is to actually make an mp3 >> > recording and basically go through with Voiceover, Talkback on my >> Android >> > phone, JFW on the Windows side of things, whatever, and basically just >> > demonstrate in realtime how the app doesn't work. It's even better yet, >> > if you actually can speak to the developer directly. Beware, I'm not >> > saying speak directly to their tech support, nor to their I.T web or >> > whatever department. That's probably not gonna get you much leverage. >> > I'm saying literally! speak to one of the software engineers. Obviously >> > with Apple, this isn't gonna most likely be possible. But for something >> > like this, you might really have to climb the chain pretty high, but it >> > might could be done. If you tell us what bank this is, we might be able >> > to find someone to put you in touch with. >> > >> > For example, my bank has never had an app, as we're just a small local >> > little state employs credit union in North Carolina based out of >> Raleigh, >> > but it just so happens that I know the branches' head regional manager, >> > Jerry Harmon. So, even though he is now retired, I think, he and I used >> > to go to church together, so obviously, I know his contact. Being he >> > directly has seen me as a blind person working on the computer, and on >> the >> > mobile side of things, he knows how important this stuff is. Therefore, >> > if something broke, I'd call him up and say, Jerry, you all broke >> > something. Then, he'd send it to the correct people, and demand that >> they >> > fix it, or else. >> > >> > My point being, part of explaining is knowing what channels to go >> through, >> > and unfortunately Jessica, a lot of channels are ineffective. It really >> > just depends on how ogressive you wanna be with this, and how determined >> > you are. I'm a snothead about things when it comes to accessibility. >> > Dammit, it's either gonna work, or else I'm gonna rattle the desk, sota >> > speak, if you catch my jist. >> > >> > Getting back though to the recording method, this is a great method, as >> > you really don't have to explain much of anything. You just go through >> > it, and pretend that they're sitting right there with you in the same >> room >> > looking over your shoulder. Once you hit something that doesn't work, >> > take a brief, yes, but notable pause to stop and explain what you are >> > doing which is making it not work, and what you feel strongly the >> > preferred behavior should be doing instead. Even if it's something as >> > simple as saying, as I swype through the screen, I should be landing >> focus >> > on all of the different items on the screen, and their associated icons. >> > >> > Then, send them a link to that file, maybe through a public Dropbox >> link, >> > or Sendspace, God forbid, or whatever. If there is a way within their >> > online ticket system to attach files like a screenshot etc, then see if >> > it'll let you upload the mp3 right there. If it won't, then establish a >> > dialog with them, and figure out a place where you can send them a >> > download link, or the file itself. If nothing else, ask them in if one >> of >> > the devs might have a personal or business Skype account that you could >> > send it through. You'd be surprised. Most devs won't give out that >> info, >> > but most do! have it, and if you push hard enough, and stay civil about >> > it, they usually, I've found will bite the bullet and give it, under the >> > strict condition that you promise not to pass it around. >> > >> > Then, what's good is, from that point forward, don't harass them, but >> you >> > obviously then have a direct P O C, so if something again down the road >> > breaks, rather than going through all that crap again, just get ahold of >> > that same person, being they now know your situation. >> > >> > Anyway, though a bit lengthy, I hope this gives you some ideas to try. >> > >> > Chris. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica Moss" >> > <junglebookfa...@gmail.com> >> > To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 2:39 PM >> > Subject: how to explain an app's inaccessibility. >> > >> > >> > Ok, the subject line probably sounds really vague, so here goes. I'm >> > currently dealing with 2 different apps, one being the one used for the >> > bank I currently use, which I can use the web site for if need-be, and >> the >> > other being the shipt app, which there's to my understanding, no >> > work-around for, and have no idea how to explain to someone that I can't >> > show physically what I can and can't do with it. Community first's app >> is >> > now almost completely inaccessible, with all unlabeled buttons, and >> when I >> > double tap whatever is labeled, it just sits. Shipt has some unlabeled >> > buttons, but most things voiceover reads, but when I try to double-tap >> > them, everything just sits there and does nothing, and can't figure out >> > why that is. >> > Can someone please help out here? >> > >> > -- >> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> > Visionaries list. >> > >> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> > if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >> > owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> > >> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is >> Cara >> > Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> > >> > The archives for this list can be searched at: >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an >> > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- >> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> > Visionaries list. >> > >> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> > if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >> > owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> > >> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is >> Cara >> > Quinn - 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