I would like to know what Mr. Henter is doing also. On Aug 14, 2009, at 4:45 PM, hank smith wrote:
> > what is he doing these days? any one know? > On Aug 14, 2009, at 7:08 AM, Daniel Crone wrote: > >> >> I remember the early jaws days. I knew that Ted Henter and all the >> people there really gave their all. Seems that when a company is >> small, it is easy for it to keep its focus. >> On Aug 14, 2009, at 5:56 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I couldn't agree with you more as regards Apple and its efforts >>> toward universal access. >>> >>> I understand the feeling you must have when the kid went off to >>> school with a new talking iPod as, when I worked at HJ/FS, i was >>> well aware that every new copy of JAWS that went out the door >>> probably meant that someone got a job, is starting in college or >>> furthering their scholastic life with a good tool. This was pounded >>> into our heads by Ted Henter to whom every customer was special. >>> Things became less satisfying in the FS days as, when Ted was in >>> charge, he would virtually shut down the software engineering >>> department until we fixed a bug or two for a single customer who had >>> trouble doing his job. Now it's all about monthly/quarterly revenue >>> figures than about the end user. It's sad but I neither own the >>> company nor do I work there anymore. >>> >>> >>> As regards other companies who make somewhat accessible items, the >>> community should reward them in proportion to the number of features >>> we can use versus those we cannot. If a product is 25% accessible >>> for people with vision impairment, then we should give them a 25% >>> pat on the back while handing them a list of the 75% of the features >>> that they need to improve. >>> >>> Often, especially on iPhone and Windows Mobile, a program will be >>> accessible, at least in part, because the API gives a lot of >>> automatic accessibility so some of the software out there will b >>> usable by default. I think the authors of such software should be >>> contacted and applauded even if they didn't know they made an >>> accessible application as it may help convince them to work with the >>> community in the future to ensure their accessibility continues. >>> >>> Some companies or groups within a company are virtually hostile to >>> our requests for accessibility. I have found that the entire >>> product line from Intuit works very poorly with any and all screen >>> readers but no matter how many emails and phone calls later, they >>> refuse to give the screen reader authors even the tiniest crumb. >>> Intuit and companies like it may require the stick as all of the >>> carrots we've supplied were spit back out. >>> >>> cdh >>> >>> >>> >>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 12:07 PM, patrickneazer wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Chris and all: >>>> >>>> Yes, I am a fan of more carrots and less stick if possible. Sticks >>>> are easy to make though I do not know anyone who enjoys being hit >>>> by one no matter how worthy or just the cause (grin). >>>> >>>> The best way to accomplish what is desired is to reward apple for >>>> their innovation with both financial and public support. >>>> >>>> As a trainer there is nothing cooler than showing a parent a >>>> talking ipod, having them purchase one for their child, having the >>>> child take it to school and the child being queen or king for the >>>> day and possibly longer (grin). >>>> >>>> That is priceless and customer loyalty will be established forever >>>> (grin). >>>> >>>> And just think, people thought it just played music (grin). >>>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: >>>> >>>>> It would also be nice, albeit unmeasurable, that Apple would be >>>>> rewarded for implementing universal design. I could then point to >>>>> it as an example of what happens when a company does things right. >>>>> I have lots of examples of when companies do things wrong (Target, >>>>> PriceLine, Ramada and recently CVS). I'd like more carrot and less >>>>> stick when I do presentations to developers or at conferences. >>>>> >>>>> CB >>>>> >>>>> Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello Chris the Other, >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree with your thoughts on universal design. Six or seven >>>>>> years ago we found that a lot of rehab counselors were >>>>>> downloading daily content from audible.com and listening on a PAC >>>>>> Mate as they went from client to client in their cars. this, I >>>>>> suppose, was a bit of accidental universal design. >>>>>> >>>>>> Apple seems to have really figured it out in the iPod Shuffle >>>>>> where the product can be used by almost everyone straight out of >>>>>> the box and no features are inaccessible to any portion of a >>>>>> large universe of potential users. >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope that Apple's leadership on this front will drag along >>>>>> other mainstream players and that we'll start to see the >>>>>> blinkosphere expand along with the universe. >>>>>> >>>>>> cdh >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> With most mainstream popular products there is huge value in not >>>>>>> only the thing itself but in the universe that surrounds it. The >>>>>>> iPod being a case in point. There are jillions of add ons and >>>>>>> public shared community knowledge which extending the value and >>>>>>> uses far beyond what maker originally envisioned. This is the >>>>>>> mainstream or universal access argument. If you can simply make >>>>>>> an existing thing accessible you get the universe that goes with >>>>>>> it for free. The VictorReader Stream may be a fine product, but >>>>>>> being a niche product it will never have the vast array of >>>>>>> cases, docking stations, FM tuners, chargers etc. Adding a >>>>>>> screen reader to a PC is another big example which connected >>>>>>> another audience to a large existing universe of tools. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One of my favorite authors was Isaac Asimov who wrote a lot >>>>>>> about robots, including some basic tenants about behavior and >>>>>>> form. He postulated that they would have to be human form to >>>>>>> work with the universe of existing devices and objects that were >>>>>>> designed for our use. To make a robot that could only interface >>>>>>> with special robot tools was doomed to failure in the long run. >>>>>>> I think this idea can have application in accessible technology. >>>>>>> Creating helper devices (tools) that work for all folks, not >>>>>>> just blind, deaf, low cognition, ambulatory or whatever will >>>>>>> bring the greatest long term success. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course everybody's favorite example of universal design is >>>>>>> curb cuts which not only make places wheelchair accessible but >>>>>>> are also great for baby strollers and shopping carts. I even >>>>>>> know one guy who uses Voiceover on his laptop read off long >>>>>>> reports while he is driving to work. Why not? Universal design >>>>>>> goes both ways and I'm sure he wouldn't have sprung for Jaws >>>>>>> just to do that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> CB >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No! If we expect mainstream companies, like Apple for >>>>>>>> instance, to follow the philosophy of universal design, then we >>>>>>>> need to make sure they know how they can improve for our >>>>>>>> segment of the universe. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With Apple, we compared VO to JAWS; iPod to Zen Stone and >>>>>>>> Victor Stream and iPhone to Mobile Speak on the AT side and the >>>>>>>> LG with its built in "accessibility." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As there is a universe of products, we need to measure them >>>>>>>> against each other. Navigon, in my opinion, has a number of >>>>>>>> things it does much better than the AT solutions (will show up >>>>>>>> in a blog entry soon) but Mobile Speak does some other things >>>>>>>> better. For instance, if one wants to use an iPhone, Navigon >>>>>>>> is just about the only solution. It also costs a whole lot >>>>>>>> less and, in my opinion, is vastly more precise. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All technology needs to be compared on a reasonably level set >>>>>>>> of criteria applied to all solutions, mainstream or blind guy >>>>>>>> ghetto. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> cdh >>>>>>>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 7:19 AM, patrickneazer wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Krister and all: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would have just written I agree in this message though that >>>>>>>>> would chew up unnecessary bandwidth and not really explain >>>>>>>>> anything and no I am not taking a shop at the moderators with >>>>>>>>> that statement because I actually agree with the policy. I am >>>>>>>>> not usually a get it off my chester though ... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I do believe that when critiques are made against mainstream >>>>>>>>> products and the evaluative measure for the critique is how it >>>>>>>>> measures up to a community specific product, that is like >>>>>>>>> comparing apples to oranges. What it also does is defeat the >>>>>>>>> purpose of mainstream developers wanting to make things >>>>>>>>> accessible. Why go out and make things accessible when what >>>>>>>>> seems to be wanted is a blind specific product that already >>>>>>>>> exists for $70. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I personally am tired of the argument that navigon is good for >>>>>>>>> the $70. Navigon is a good app that actually is accessible. >>>>>>>>> Now, I and others might have to access the information in a >>>>>>>>> manner which is new or initially uncomfortable though that >>>>>>>>> does not make the product inaccessible or poorly designed. >>>>>>>>> What it does make the product is open to individual >>>>>>>>> evaluation.In short, it is perfectly acceptable for a product >>>>>>>>> to fit one persons needs, not fit a second persons needs, and >>>>>>>>> still be both a good product which can always be improved. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Opened myself up for trouble (grin). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:12 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ok, Il moderatore, i know this is off-topic somewhat but i as >>>>>>>>>> they say >>>>>>>>>> in online business promoting mails, have to get it out of my >>>>>>>>>> chest >>>>>>>>>> before i explode! I think it's a bit unfair to compare >>>>>>>>>> standard gps >>>>>>>>>> solutions with those made strictly for blind folks and if >>>>>>>>>> Navigon as a >>>>>>>>>> standard gps solution makes a very good job of helping us >>>>>>>>>> around the >>>>>>>>>> place, it's great! What really would've been great would be >>>>>>>>>> if someone >>>>>>>>>> could do a podcast of a navigon session so that one may here >>>>>>>>>> it in >>>>>>>>>> action, rather like people have done with Wayfinder access >>>>>>>>>> and Mobile >>>>>>>>>> geo. >>>>>>>>>> /Krister >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 11 aug 2009 kl. 14.10 skrev Chris G: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>> FYI Humanware Trekker is not using the Sendero SDK. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:01:26 +0100 >>>>>>>>>>> william lomas <lomaswill...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> what will the update in december contain for navigon? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2009, at 18:50, Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> EI don't do podcasts. I will write some blog entries on >>>>>>>>>>>>> this stuff >>>>>>>>>>>>> soon (www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of those available to blinks, Wayfinder is the one I know >>>>>>>>>>>>> the least >>>>>>>>>>>>> about as I only used it for a month or so about a year >>>>>>>>>>>>> ago. Almost >>>>>>>>>>>>> all of the players in the AT biz are using the same >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sendero engine. >>>>>>>>>>>>> So, Humanware, Nuance, Freedom Scientific, Code Factory >>>>>>>>>>>>> are all >>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>> the same underneath but have different UI that one can >>>>>>>>>>>>> pick from. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Just based on my minimal experience with Navigon, though, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would >>>>>>>>>>>>> suggest you stick with Wayfinder/Access until they put out >>>>>>>>>>>>> an update >>>>>>>>>>>>> expected in December. Navigon is fine if you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> already have >>>>>>>>>>>>> something but I wouldn't scrap your current solution quite >>>>>>>>>>>>> yet. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> These opinions are mine and mine alone and are the result >>>>>>>>>>>>> of messing >>>>>>>>>>>>> around with Navigon for less than two days and I've been >>>>>>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile >>>>>>>>>>>>> Geo very frequently since it came out and it is my >>>>>>>>>>>>> favorite but that >>>>>>>>>>>>> is likely because it is the one with which I'm most >>>>>>>>>>>>> familiar. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cdh >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2009, at 9:40 AM, william lomas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can you do a podcast on navigon so ican hear it? at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> present i am a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wayfinder user and want to "hear" how it compares >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2009, at 14:09, Chris Hofstader wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While I have had and enjoyed my iPhone for about a month >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> half, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hadn't, before yesterday, needed to switch between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running tasks. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, I was following directions to our local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> YWCA using >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Navigon yesterday. I received a phone call and, after >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hanging >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't figure out how to get back to Navigon to look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things. Navigon continued giving me directions but I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back to its interface where VoiceOver reads the street >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> names and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I looked in the iPhone manual and searched on "task >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switching" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "background task" using VO's search facility as well as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Preview and didn't find anything. I can't believe that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too difficult but I can't find it in the manual given >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criteria I can think up. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any help will be appreciated. I'm going back into the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manual to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what I might be able to find. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Happy Hacking, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cdh >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Chris G <cgrabowsk...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Take good care and I wish you enough. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Love >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Me >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Take good care and I wish you enough. >>>> >>>> Love >>>> >>>> Me >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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