On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 12:25:12AM +0000, Uwe Stöhr wrote: > Am 11.03.2018 um 00:57 schrieb Scott Kostyshak: > > > If in the LyX 2.3.0 installer we provide an informative dialog, the user > > might say "oh I did not know that LyX needed to update MiKTeX. I will > > not install LyX now because I need to submit my paper tomorrow. After I > > submit my paper, I can deal with an updated MiKTeX and fix any problems > > that come from updated LaTeX packages so I will install LyX 2.3.0 at > > that time". > > Why do you claim that an update of MiKTeX's package handling introduces > problems with LaTeX packages? I run all LyX files I have on my disc with the > LyX 2.3.0 and don't get any compilation error. > I already wrote that I don't like these claims.
My claim comes from personal experience and from helping users. I often come across users who say "this used to work before!", and what we find out is that it was an update that caused something to break. > Why do you come up with such constructed examples? Because I think examples help illustrate points, in addition to making abstract arguments. I agree that at some point we have to also discuss whether the example is realistic or not. > The use case of an > installer is to install. However: > > - If I have to submit a paper tomorrow I will fur sure not upgrade the > software. For Word or LibreOffice you won't do this as well. > - Even if you decided to install LyX 2.3.0 you made a decision - you want to > have LyX. I agree, but you do not know that having LyX also means updating MiKTeX. > And with the installer you get it. But you might get more than what you expected. > - You expect people to have a lot of background knowledge and that they > understand English well. Both is not the case for many if not most users. I > also don't like that I have to issue the dialog with the OK button because > not everybody will understand what this means since "MiKTeX" or "package" > are not common for many users. Moreover the dialog is only in English. I > decided to pop it up because an update can take several minutes (for example > if you run the last update a year ago or never run an update) and if people > think nothing is happening they might close the installer during the update > process. The installer for 2.3.1 will of course return to the old installer > behavior. As mentioned before, I do not take the dialog lightly. Having the dialog comes with its own costs. I agree that it could cause confusion. It is just that I think the benefit of the dialog outweighs the costs. This is my opinion, and I can see how others would disagree. That's why I think it's good to get as many opinions as possible and make a decision as a group. > Allow me to continue your constructed case: The user denies any update and > therefore don't get LyX 2.3.0. But he maybe reconfigure LyX 2.2.x and as > result he cannot compile his document because LaTeX got broken. If he runs > my LyX 2.3.0 installer he can afterwards also reconfigure his LyX 2.2.x > without risking anything. I think that's a good point. In my constructed case, I was talking about a user who mainly uses LaTeX directly, instead of through LyX. My logic goes as follows: - Some Windows users might use LaTeX directly, in addition to LyX. - Updating MiKTeX could break compilation of current documents in a TeX editor outside of LyX. - Therefore, there could be a cost to someone who installs LyX 2.3.0. Scott
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