On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 9:50 AM Matt P. Dziubinski <mat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/15/2021 18:29, David Blaikie wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 7:40 AM Matt P. Dziubinski via llvm-dev > > <llvm-...@lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-...@lists.llvm.org>> wrote: > > > > On 6/15/2021 12:58, Aaron Ballman via llvm-dev wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 5:41 PM James Y Knight via cfe-dev > > > <cfe-...@lists.llvm.org <mailto:cfe-...@lists.llvm.org>> wrote: > > >> > > >> On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 6:19 PM James Y Knight > > <jykni...@google.com <mailto:jykni...@google.com>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I've just tried out discourse for the first time. It is not > > clear to me how to use it to replace mailing lists. It has a setting > > "mailing list mode", which sounds like the right thing -- sending > > all messages via email. Except that option is global -- all messages > > in all categories on the llvm discourse instance. Which definitely > > isn't what I want at all. I don't want to subscribe to MLIR, for > > example. > > >> > > >> > > >> FWIW, it would seem that one secret trick here is to NOT check > > "mailing list mode" -- that option is mostly there to confuse you, I > > guess. > > >> > > >>> In general, I'd say I'm pretty uncomfortable with switching > > from a mailing list to discourse. Discourse seems entirely > > reasonable to use for end-user-facing forums, but I'm rather > > unconvinced about its suitability as a dev-list replacement. Other > > communities (e.g. python) seem to have a split, still: mailing lists > > for dev-lists, and discourse for end-user-facing forums. > > >>> > > >>> I'd also note that Mailman3 provides a lot more features than > > what we're used to with mailman2, including the ability to > > interact/post through the website. > > >>> > > >>> Maybe someone can convince me that I'm just being a curmudgeon, > > but at this point, I'd say we ought to be investigating options to > > have Someone Else manage the mailman service, and keep using mailing > > lists, rather than attempting to switch to discourse. > > >> > > >> > > >> On that last point, I've gone ahead and asked the folks at > > osci.io <http://osci.io> ("Open Source Community Infrastructure") if > > they'd be willing to host our mailing lists. They are a group at > > RedHat whose mission is to support infrastructure for open-source > > community projects, and they host mailman3 lists for a number of > > other open-source groups, already (https://www.osci.io/tenants/ > > <https://www.osci.io/tenants/>). So, I believe they have the > > necessary experience and expertise. > > >> > > >> They have said they indeed are willing and have the capacity to > > run this for us as a service, if we'd like. We'd still need to be > > responsible for things like list moderation, but they'd run the > > mailman installation on their infrastructure. In my opinion, we > > ought to take this option, rather than trying to push a migration to > > discourse. > > >> > > >> To me, it seems this would be a much clearer upgrade path, and > > would solve the hosting/volunteer-admin issue -- including for > > commit lists -- giving the current maintainers quicker relief from > > the undesired task of running the list service. Additionally, since > > it would be a migration to Mailman3, we would get many of the > > additional features mentioned as desirable, e.g. searchable archives > > and posting from the website. > > > > > > Thank you for checking into a mailman3 hosting option, I think > this > > > approach would make me feel the most comfortable (far more > > comfortable > > > than switching to Discord). > > > > I also find Mailman 3 friendlier than Discourse from the UX point of > > view. > > > > Currently Discourse doesn't directly support standard search > > functionality in web browsers, > > > > > > Could you describe what's missing/not working in more detail? At least I > > can use my browser (Chrome)'s search functionality to find words in both > > the pages linked below. > > > Sure! It may be easier to notice in a longer thread: Compare the > following two views--searching for D104227 using the built-in search in > a web browser initially finds 0 occurrences in the first one (at the > same time it works fine in the print preview and finds 1 occurrence in > the penultimate comment, at least at the moment of writing): > > https://llvm.discourse.group/t/rfc-introduce-alloca-scope-op/2940 > > https://llvm.discourse.group/t/rfc-introduce-alloca-scope-op/2940/print Ah, yep, that demonstrates the issue but for some reason the previous links didn't (maybe because the previous linked thread was all on one page for me) > > > The issue is related to the unload-on-scroll behavior of Discourse: When > you open a page on https://llvm.discourse.group it doesn't load (or > show) the entire thread on one page by default but instead progressively > loads (and unloads) partial content as you scroll along. > Ah, yeah - which is why it hijacks the search shortcut to do a web form search rather than the browser builtin. Seems to work OK - I wouldn't count this as a major usability problem, at least for me. > > There's no such restriction in the Mailman web UI since it displays the > entire thread on one page by default, even for longer threads, e.g., > > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-...@python.org/thread/JM6SQ2YNMDAKXYD5O54QWMVR2X7QOXVL/ > Loading the complete thread (displaying all messages) allows the > built-in search to work without issues. > Great to see too - especially to see that it addresses an issue that's always pained me about our current mailman setup, where threads get split by week or month - so there's no nice way to link to a whole thread. I'll be happy to see that addressed in either/any way. - Dave > > Best, > Matt >
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