Hi all!
Attached is a discussion I had with the webmaster of the site of Orange,
of which I recently became a customer of. Notice what I claim to be some
inconsistencies in his approach. The final E-mail he sent me (after which
I said that I'll just agree to disagree) is:
<<<
Dear Mr. Fish.
I would like to end this discution with this note.
Even though I am a user of Linux and a fan of all things open source I
still do
not agree that all websites should support all browsers. orange's website
was
designed to be out of the ordinary, not standard and clean but to align
itself
with our Logo and unique line of advertising.. We chose to write it this
way
and we have no regrets.
Even with all this in mind, your comments about compatibility will be
taken
into consideration.
>>>
If you are an Orange customer please voice your complaint as well or
mention that you support my opinions. (to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than getting
its license changed.
Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:54:55 +0200 (IST)
From: Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ???: Re: ???: http://www.orange.co.il/catalog/ is unviewable
in Mozill a {ID:36786727} (fwd)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two
doctors away.
Falk Fish
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:39:45 +0200 (IST)
From: Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ???: Re: ???: http://www.orange.co.il/catalog/ is unviewable
in Mozill a {ID:36786727}
On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Dear Mr. Fish,
> I thank you again for your mail.
>
> I regret being so blunt but, no, we are not going to change our website in
> the near future. We have developed an amazing website,
"amazing"? By this do you mean full of non-portable bells and whistles,
and other idiosyncracies? Sorry, but that's not an amazing web-site
according to my book.
A good web-site is either simple and clean, or includes
standard-compliant, portable embelishments. (which are usually not
necessary).
Usability, low bandwidth, etc. is much more important than "amazingness"
and I bet it's not very usable in MSIE either.
> that costs us a
> lot of money to develop and maintain,
Why does it? Why should it? I maintain a few web-sites in my free time and
I'm not getting paid to do so. If you keep your web-site clean and simple,
it will cost less money to maintain and will also attract more visitors.
> and it is currently built exactly
> according to our business needs.
I seriously doubt it is built according to anyone's business needs. Why do
you need JavaScript to display the catalog of images? Why not simply
include them in the HTML? If you look at popular international sites,
you'll see that most of them are built with simple and clean HTML
(sometimes without any trace of JavaScript).
> I can also say that although
> technologically it might be possible to develop a version for Mozilla or
> other browsers,
1. It is possible.
2. I'm not talking about a separate version for other browsers. I'm
talking about one version for _all_ browsers.
> orange, and many other content providers, are investing
> in the most common browser, it is currently not cost efficient to
> develop versions for other browsers.
>
It is cost efficient if you hire clueful developers. Look at my site:
http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
(which links to other sites I made).
They all look perfectly fine in all modern browsers, including lynx (a
minimalistic text browser). Why? Because I know what I'm doing and I know
how to write good HTML.
First you tell me your site costs a lot of money to maintain, and then you
tell me it is not cost efficient to support other browsers. Now, let me
tell you this: if you keep your site clean and standards compliant, you
can have it support all browsers and it will cost you much less money to
maintain.
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
> Regards
> Eyal Sion
> Data Support Team
> www.orange.co.il
>
> -----????? ??????-----
> ??: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ?????: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:48:32 +0200
> ???: Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> ????: Re: ???: http://www.orange.co.il/catalog/ is unviewable in Mozill a
> {ID:36786727}
>
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Dear Mr. Fish,
> > I thank you for your e-mail.
> >
> > In reply to your complaint, currently, our website is only supported
> by Internet Explorer versions 5.5 and up.
> >
>
> OK.
>
> Are you going to do anything about it? By designing a web-site according
> to web standards, one can make sure it is supported on all browsers
> easily. Right now, you're descriminating against an entire section of
> the
> populace that cannot run this browser on their OS or computer of choice.
>
> Regards,
>
> Shlomi Fish
>
> > Regards.
> > Eyal Sion
> > Data Support Team
> > www.orange.co.il
> >
> > -----????? ??????-----
> > ??: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > ?????: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:24:01 +0200
> > ???: Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > ????: http://www.orange.co.il/catalog/ is unviewable in Mozilla
> >
> >
> > The page:
> >
> > http://www.orange.co.il/catalog/
> >
> > on your site is not viewable with Mozilla 1.4 on Linux (and probably
> on
> > Windows as well). Please fix it. I am about to buy a device from you
> and
> > was unable to view the site due to this bug.
> >
> > That put aside, the site is completely unusable with Konqueror 3.1.3
> on
> > Linux.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Shlomi Fish
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> >
> > An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two
> > doctors away.
> >
> > Falk Fish
> >
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
>
> An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two
> doctors away.
>
> Falk Fish
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two
doctors away.
Falk Fish
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