Thanks for that Kieren, it works and is very flexible I couldn't find an 
obvious switch for line alignment (top, center, bottom), so I feared that 
lambda would be appearing :-) FWIW I checked a handful of scores each from 
Schott, Universal, Faber, Ricordi and while not identical, they lean towards 
top aligned for octave above, and bottom aligned for octave below. Leduc's late 
Messiaen uses centered lines and here I see some some manual tweaking when 
spacing gets tight, which your snippet would be perfect for. Damian (and Carl, 
I got your post just this morning for some reason, thanks for that)

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