On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 11:09 PM Paolo Prete <paolopr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The vertical-fill method does exactly what I asked in the very first post. > But soon after, thanks to this thread, I saw some limitations in a > pure-LilyPond approach, which I did not know: therefore I stated, *before* > you made this example: > > "I well know, and stated several times, that LilyPond has the power of a > nuclear reactor. > And I'm sure too that with customizations you can do whatever you want in > the cover/introductory pages. > What I meant is different. For these pages I don't want to add or expose > logic. " > > As you can see, your example adds a hard customization for a task that > should be easy in creating cover pages. If I sum all the effort for doing > such easy things on cover pages I realize that it is better to have an > easier and faster tool for creating such pages, instead of growing the code > with work-arounds, custom functions etc. In addition, you would not have to > bother in case you are stuck in similar future situations, nor it's > required that you learn low-level LP. > Please note that you wrote the example *after* I decided to use this > alternative, and after I stated that in my case the problem was already > solved. > > "From what I see, your approach is a low-level approach, therefore it > should be wrapped (so to shorten the code and improve the readibility). But > wrapping has some other disadvantages, as I explained later. Then I > concluded that, in my general case, the best thing is to use multiple tools > (which has disadvantages too, of course, but I consider it a better > compromise) " > > That said, the thread continued because it highlighted interesting points > that deserved to be discussed. What I want to say is that you already gave > me the solution of the problem, indirectly, by making me learn how the > stuff works. > > One last thing: I would like to encourage Valentin to push his fill-vertical-line function to the main repo. it's not important that it doesn't cover my general case: what is important is that it fills a hole in standard LP, because a fill-vertical-line is IMHO required for several cases in basic cover or introductory pages. A fill-line is already in standard LP: so, why not a fill-vertical-line too? Best, P > Best, > Paolo > > > > On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 10:15 PM Valentin Petzel <valen...@petzel.at> > wrote: > >> Hello Paolo, >> >> Yes, that makes sense. This was never meant as some full working >> implementation but just as an example. >> >> Still, what problems did you have with the vertical-fill method? This >> should >> work quite well for cover pages and such. >> >> Cheers, >> Valentin >> >> Am Samstag, 18. Dezember 2021, 21:13:57 CET schrieb Paolo Prete: >> > Hello Valentin >> > >> > On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 7:35 PM Valentin Petzel <valen...@petzel.at> >> wrote: >> > > Hello Paolo, >> > > >> > > That is not exactly true. The first time you used the word template >> was >> > > quite >> > > some way in when you assumed that you’d need to set the markups >> > > differently >> > > for any possible configuration (which is where I answered you’d be >> > > underestimating Lilypond as you do NOT need to do that. My example >> showed >> > > a >> > > way you can have ONE header/footer markup producing different results >> on >> > > global flags (these could also be put inside the header block or a >> paper >> > > block), basically showing you how to create a simple interface like >> you >> > > wanted >> > > (although by that point it was not clear to me that you wanted that)). >> > >> > ... but, if you pick up again that message, you will find that the >> > interface you created did not meet my specs. Here are my words: >> > "I should have the flexibility to switch on the fly from one choice to >> > another, which is expected in a header + body + footer template, >> therefore >> > this template should not be polluted by mixing body with footer.". In >> fact >> > you redefined the template without wrapping it. Then, it should not be >> > considered a template with the flexibilty to switch from one choice to >> > another, but rather a customization of a template that doesn't offer >> that >> > easy switch. Even if you do the easy switch as a result, this can't be >> used >> > as template because you did not wrap it. And this has disadvantages, as >> I >> > tried to explain, adding that I could wrap it in my own project, so to >> meet >> > my specs, but this procedure would have disadvantages too. >> > >> > > The technical problem here is that there is no clear border between >> body, >> > > header and footer (unless we are taking full control of the page, for >> > > which I >> > > gave you a way to do this without footer (as I said before, I did not >> > > realize >> > > we were talking about cover pages before that, even though it says so >> in >> > > the >> > > subject. I was expecting a first page with music on it)). >> > >> > This is not true, and this is what I added in my explanation later. >> There >> > is such clear border: it is given by the template defaults. These are >> the >> > rules for body, header and footer. When you decide to modify these >> rules, >> > then you are creating a grey area, then it is needed to wrap your >> > customization, so to create new defaults (and, consequently, a new >> > template). When you violate this rule by modifying two instances of two >> > implementations (footer and header) of an interface, instead of >> creating >> > new instances, then you are doing a hack which makes the code even >> dirtier, >> > then a wrap is doubly needed. In the example we are discussing, the >> motto >> > is logically part of the body. Then, given that the LP template doesn't >> > meet this specs, a new template should be created by wrapping a >> > customization of the original one. Then you have clean code and you can >> > have new clear borders. As you can see, this is a tedious procedure, and >> > this is why I prefer to use alternative tools. >> > >> > > But let’s be specific about the problem: So your aim here is to create >> > > templates? Or do just want to create a cover page with something at >> the >> > > bottom? >> > >> > my aim (which is not what I asked at the beginning of the thread, >> though) >> > is not to create templates (I don't have time for now), but to have a >> way >> > to have them for the next future. And I got this result with the >> > alternative tool. And, of course, with the help of your (and Aaron's) >> > examples, which made me understand how the things works in LP. Therefore >> > you are wrong when you feel unmotivated for the things you read. You >> should >> > consider the opposite... >> > Please note that there's nothing strange in using an alternative tool >> for >> > this. And I would leave the LP code totally untouched for these tasks. >> > IMHO LP doesn't need to have such sophisticated tools for cover pages, >> as >> > Jean wished. It would be totally beyond its scope. Therefore I find >> > ridiculous (and pathetic at the same time) when my words appear as a >> blame. >> > >> > Best, >> > Paolo > >
