On 10/02/2012 12:39 PM, Bruce Dubbs wrote: > Baho Utot wrote: > >> If Lennart and redhat succeed in moving linux to systemd I am moving to >> *BSD. I have talked to many BSD developers ( there was a linux fest on >> saturday here) and they plan on sticking to a "scripts" base init >> system. I am currently looking at their udev "replacement/work alike". >> >> Systemd is a solution trying desperately to find a problem. From my >> vantage point systemd is a windows solution to a non existent problem/issue. >> >> What are the problems with sysvinit? >> >> If it isn't broke don't fixit! > I think your comments are a bit too strong, although I generally agree > with the sentiment. I do think that LFS users should have the > instructions available to try it out and make their own judgements.
Yes there rules their system. OTOH <godzilla mode on> Look out Tokyo I am just getting aggravated with the direction of linux with the cgroups etc. Heck you can copy a set of files to a usb and back and now you have no perms to do anything with the files any more. going to sudo -i in the term won't help you one wit. You still can't do anything with the files. You can do a ls and they are there but you can open them in vi, kwrite etc or run them if the are executable. Even cat and less shows you nothing. cp -vaur don't work correctly any more, cp -vaur your files to a usb and it says it worked but when you look at the files they are the same old ones! rsync -var some files to a usb and let it complete then sudo rsync -var the same files ( up arrow add sudo to front of line ) and now the perms are all messed up. This is brought on by changes in the kernel. Dealing these new "additions" I just might break out my old redhat 6.0-6.2 ( no not RHEL ) if I thought it would run on this quad core. I just don't think the 2.0 kernel would work. I guess I could run it in windows in vbox! This Fedora 17 is just @#$%&&^ !! I'll be glad when I get LFS/BLFS built to KDE so I can ditch distros. I am still in the process of looking at pcBSD, if this nonsense keeps up (in/with/about linux) I'll abandon ship and start building BSD from scratch. I want a unix like system like the old days that "just" works. > The nice thing about LFS, is that you don't need to install systemd. > You can continue to use sysvinit or upstart or some other method. > > The real issue, in my opinion, is that systemd is a correction for using > an initrd and building virtually every driver as a kernel module. These > are needed for large distros and adds a little flexibility that a few > users need, but slows things down for everybody. > > Just making an experienced user's guess, I think that a kernel with > almost all drivers built as modules needs to search for the appropriate > module when a device is initialized. systemd then fires off the > appropriate boot script when found and parallelizes this device > initialization issue. If you don't use modules, then you don't need all > this. My experience with a very vanilla initrd is that it about doubles > my init time (about 8 seconds to 16 seconds) even without modules. It goes beyond kernel modules, systemd will respawn daemons that have stopped/failed. Opps slap me silly they are not daemons they are services now. It will only start a daemon/process/service if it is needed by some package on demand, so much for you if you would like it started at boot. The log file is binary and not just a text file so if something barfs you need to boot to something that has the systemd utils on the to read the log file to what happened. Also on the horizon is software packages are starting to change there startup away from sysvinit scripts or scripts in general. You can see this with Arch linux. > > The whole thing reminds me of a patient with cancer (supporting all > devices and boot partition methods). The doctor gives chemo (initrd) > and then gives other drugs (systemd) to overcome the side effects of the > chemo. Actually It is worst than that...It's flesh eating bacteria over 90% of your body and gobbling fast! > For big distros, I don't see how this is avoidable, but for LFS and > similar systems, we are cancer free and don't need drugs. > > Just some data: On my 7 year old P6, the boot time from mountvirtfs > through network device initialization, ntpd, dbus, sshd, and fcron, > takes 6-7 seconds (2 seconds of that are udev). Not that it matters. I > haven't rebooted since May 3rd. > > My newer Core 2 is slightly faster (5 seconds, still 2 seconds for udev). > > -- Bruce I don't really care about boot up or shut down time... I care about the speed/ease of use while I am USING the computer. After all I want to USE it not boot it every 5 mins and watch. I always thought the "my system boots faster that your system" as lame. I would care if sysvinit took 5 minutes, and systemd took 5 secs....that is if the system just works without pissing me off due to this non sense. <godzilla mode off> Ah feel better now ;) -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/faq/ Unsubscribe: See the above information page
