The odd cross into the box (which does not equate to long ball football) does
no harm Jeremy especially with Costa in the middle. Spain got behind Russia
several times yet chose to cut back rather than cross. They must be fined if
they do cross the ball! Isn't the sign of madness doing the same thing over and
over again with no success? Something like that anyway....
England 2-0 today!!
Nick
On Tuesday, July 3, 2018, 8:43:39 AM EDT, Jeremy Adams
<[email protected]> wrote:
If you read the book(s) on Pep you'll see that he's against Tiki Takka (or
tippy tappy). Yes he plays a possession based game but he intends his
possession to have purpose and for it to include passes that split defences,
and he encourages players to take on defenders in the last third of the pitch.
I think Pep has been instrumental in the improvement in Sterling's play (still
no end product admittedly) in that he got Sterling to hold his position much
better than he used to. Sterling used to run around like a maniac in an effort
to get the ball when in actual fact you're generally better off trying to find
a pocket of space and waiting for your team mates to find you.
It is hard for teams like Spain to break down defensive teams like Russia, and
long balls into the box are not the answer (Lord knows we've seen that fail
enough with England over the years.)
Best team for me right now is France. Girouard starting up front seems to keep
the defenders busy and that creates space for Mbappe to exploit (and exploit it
he did against the Argies!) The you have Griezeman's intelligent play, and
Kante's intelligent play and breaking up of attacks. Pogba, when he can be
arsed and plays further up the field can unlock defences with a great pass.
Defensively they are a tad weak but I suspect they'll continue to outscore
their opponents. Uruguay look very organized and in Suarez have a game changer
so they could be a real challenger too. Brazil are starting to click but I
still suspect they have a bad game in them if something starts to go wrong.
Belgium were a little lucky with the first goal against Japan ( i really dont
believe that was anything other than a header back into the box) which
completely changed the momentum in that game but they also look pretty strong.
England to go out to Columbia today I'm afraid.
Jeremy
________________________________
From: Leedslist <[email protected]> on behalf of Brendan McWilliams
<[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 2, 2018 8:25:14 AM
To: [email protected]; John Lee
Subject: Re: [LU] Tippy Tappy
Hiya,
unquestionably Spain were flippin' dire yesterday. Quite how none of them
caught on themselves that they needed to go long, use the wings or run at them
is beyond us all.
However, a comparison with City though can't be made, nor is it fair to tie
fully Spain's way of playing with Guardiola - in fact, Guardiola has moved on,
but Spain hasn't.
In any case, Spain's style precedes Guardiola somewhat. Spain won Euro 2008
with Luis Aragones (Pep became FCB manager in 2008) so they were already
playing possession football - but they had runners: Torres (yes, he did run),
Villa and Pedro. This Spain put on the runners ONLY at the end to complement
Costa with Aspas & Moreno - but by then it was too late.
The Pep comparison is also irrelevant as Man City do not play against teams who
in a nutshell refuse to play. There's not one EPL team that would dare to play
for a 0-0 draw - their own fans would boo them off the pitch and the coach
would be sacked in a question of weeks.
In the WC it's of paramount importance to NOT lose your 1st game, and given
that there's only 3 x group games, shutting-up-shop and playing for a draw is
commonplace against the top seed. Thus Spain (and most #1 seeds) end up
playing against blanket defences resulting in awful tedious games until they
get more equal opposition in the knockout stage and they can play (see France).
I can't remember the last team to take it to Spain properly - probably Holland
4 years ago - but all my excuses above are just that - they got it badly wrong.
Anyhow, enough of my homily - not hard to see I'm a bit biased!!
BMW
________________________________
From: John Lee <[email protected]>
Sent: 02 July 2018 11:46
To: Brendan McWilliams; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [LU] Tippy Tappy
Much of what you say I agree with. On Spain however, the sheer lack of
willingness to probe was what lead to their elimination. Teams have always
parked the bus, and whilst it can be as boring as hell, it is not their job to
help Spain beat them. Man City employ a variety of the type of football Spain
could have employed - possesion based but with a cutting edge, and hard
pressing to get back any lost ball. They could have played Costa + 1 up front,
but they didn't. And, when push came to shove, they took some really poor
penalties. That is genuinely surprising given their pass accuracy rate, but of
course most of that is along their back line with no pressure. I would just
have liked them to have really had a go - they could have won the thing!
Great World Cup? Well, clearly a personal view. Refs have been good to very
good, VAR usually a positive, stadia look great, no reports of bad stuff going
on (aside from the ticket touting for England's game tomorrow in particular).
But are there teams you can't wait to watch, who you know will provide real
entertainment as well as having footballing ability? Less sure about that.
Uruguay look the real deal - great defending, but committed attacking too
(Suarez was outstanding v Portugal); England might be right up there, but
there's been plenty of play-safe rubbish.
________________________________
From: Brendan McWilliams <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, 2 July 2018, 11:55
Subject: Re: [LU] Tippy Tappy
Hi all,
provoked into a semi-defence of Spain....
Their way of playing - possession football on the ground - remains the best
quality football over the last decade. Both RM & FCB play this way, it's a joy
to watch, has been a joy to watch now for years and you only need to look at
their European trophies these last 10 years.
RM's midfield has the likes of Modric, Isco and Kroos, FCB have Coutinho,
Rakitic and Messi - and none of them know how to tackle because they don't have
to with possession football.
(Note also that RM haven't really spent that much money recently - their last
splurge was 3 years ago, although I suspect that's about to change.)
Spain's abysmal failure is due to:
- their players and style being so good that every single frickin' team that
plays them now has already given up before they start. They park the bus (and
then some) and go for a 0-0 draw. Russia in particular yesterday, Iran before
them. Even Portugal sat back. Saying Spain are boring, yet overlooking the
opposition is plain silly. When Mou's teams do nothing and shut up shop, the
other team are accused of being dull?
- half the team being from a club team that has Ronaldo, the other half a club
team that has Messi. So these guys are all waiting around for a spark of genius
that isn't coming, then it's just giving it to someone else hoping they'll have
that creativity. Xavi was able to do it, Isco is nearly there, but otherwise
they're all passing around hoping for something to happen. You could say the
same for Germany too - all waiting for a killer pass or touch of magic that
never came.
- So, if it's playing against 9 or 10 defenders and you can't dribble through
THAT many or thread a pass through minimal space, then the only options are
crosses from the wings or long balls from deep. Whilst Hierro played Costa up
front, nobody played off him (like what Griezmann does in ATM) and so he's
totally isolated and looks like a lemon but when used right, he's outstanding.
No wingers: yesterday they had Asensio (not a winger really), Isco went into
the middle and Silva is brilliant but not a winger either.
All this BS about tiki-taka being dull etc - what do you do if the other team
doesn't want to play? You give them the ball? They usually don't even want the
ball as they'll just lose it going forward, then get caught. In short, Spain
should have went longer with speed - but they didn't and another tournament
wasted.
As to weather this is a great WC or not - yes it is.
So few teams play by lamping the ball up by default, all are playing on the
ground, the refs have been mostly outstanding, numerous games decided in the
last 10mins and yes, VAR has been a good addition. The lack of "stars" you
have to put down to the fact that there are so few very bad teams any more and
it's a more equal tournament (compared to others). All the stars before shone
because they were basically playing against traffic cones.
Also, who can remember Euro 92, Euro 96 (the other games), about half of Italia
90, quite a lot of WC2010 (Algeria vs England anyone?).... they were
absolutely dire. Best WC in recent times for me was WC2006 when a young Germany
came through under Klinsmann playing amazing football.
BMW
________________________________
From: Leedslist
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf
of {broken-address} John Lee
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: 02 July 2018 10:24
To: Nigel Sykes; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [LU] Tippy Tappy
Firstly, I hadn't heard about Brian Mac - absolutely the right decision,
despite all that has been achieved. The sheer bloody mindedness he's shown
recently, at least publicly, in refusing to accept there were problems was
ludicrous. The Rhinos need a serious overhaul, so should be very interesting!
Re the WC, yep, some of the European teams have been the worst for negativity.
I'd hoped Senegal might qualify as I liked their gung-ho approach, but look
where that got them? Mind you, the sheer amateurism of teams like Tunisia,
Saudi Arabia when defending has been pitiful. God knows how poor the comp will
be by the American one as they're increasing the number to 48!! They might make
loads of money, but some of the games will be pointless!
Now, come on Mexico!!!!
From: Nigel Sykes <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, 2 July 2018, 10:09
Subject: Re: [LU] Tippy Tappy
Definitely not the best ever in terms of quality of football. But in terms of
entertainment? Sure - it took until yesterday's turgid few hours of dullness to
remind me what the World Cup was usually like, especially in the knock-out
stages.
Thankfully, there's only on more all-European tie left in this round, because
that's where the fun usually drains away.
Nigel
(the Dublin one)
P.S. McDermott gone from Rhinos...
-----Original Message-----
From: Leedslist
[mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On
Behalf Of {broken-address} John Lee
Sent: 02 July 2018 09:59
To: Roger Goodair; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [LU] Tippy Tappy
I think Spain 10 years ago were brilliant, but it didn't do them much good this
time. Keeping posession is one thing, but being ambivalent about creating any
chances is another. They were so dull for most of the World Cup - given the
quality of players they have then what a waste that they really couldn't switch
into a tippy-tappy Mk 2 where creation of chances outsrips the desire to have
the ball.
What do others think about the standard of teams at this World Cup. The 'Best
World Cup Ever' comments are, imho, ridiculous. Some very average teams,
petulant and ridiculous defending/over-reacting. France looked very good
against Argentina, Croatia looked great (and very dirty) in the group but were
outplayed by Denmark yesterday and should have lost, Brazil, average as yet,
Russia - 2 excellent group games of old-skool togger, followed by a drubbing
from Uruguay. England - doing Ok to very good, but not yet played a decent team
with their first eleven - hope they can progress though and think they will.
But Greatest World Cup ever - do they not remember Jairzinho, Rivelino, Total
Football, even Germany v Brazil last time out?
I might change my mind if England win it though :-)
JOhn
From: Roger Goodair
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2018, 14:17
Subject: [LU] Tippy Tappy
And your (and many others in England) "Can't be doing with" is the
reason England haven't won a major trophy for 52 years and Spain have
won three in the last 10 years.
As the German coach of the time put it after their semi final defeat in
2008, death by a thousand passes. Simply awesome in my view and one
unerring truth in football is that the opposition cannot score if they
do not have the ball.
If only the hapless club team of our affections could string 6 passes
together what a joy that would be to behold.
Southampton 1972 anyone?
Rogerre
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