Local and others can be a lot lower. Key is that more people don't vote at all 
than the winning party gets 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 May 2017, at 16:33, Nicholas Armit <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> I thought general election turnouts in the UK were pretty high (60-70%)?
> 
> 
> From: Matt Anderson <[email protected]>
> To: Richard Naef <[email protected]> 
> Cc: Leeds List <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 11:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> 
> Agreed. Also leads to turnouts of 30-40% or less because no one can be 
> bothered  
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On 24 May 2017, at 15:43, Richard Naef <[email protected]> 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > That may well be the experience in your country, but it's a special case as 
> > the involvement of religious parties is part of the basis for your 
> > existence. Modern European democracies are all based on PR and better for 
> > it. In the UK the vast majority of people's vote are literally worth 
> > nothing. UKIP, greens, lib Dems got over 7 million votes between them and 
> > had 10 MPs. Tories got 35% of vote and pretty much complete control.
> > 
> > Sent from my Mobile
> > 
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: RE: [LU] : Manchester
> > From: Michael Benjamin 
> > To: Matt Anderson ,Richard Naef 
> > CC: Leeds List 
> > 
> > Ridiculous---You can never appreciate ridiculous till you live under 
> > proportional representation. It promotes militants loons. In Israel the 
> > 10-15% penguins are 'driven by' a third motivated ones. They then hold the 
> > balance of power. You do not get diversity you get lunacy. No one looks to 
> > represent the middle of the road majority. It is too complex; so you get 
> > uni-issue agitators to their own minority and don't give a toss about 
> > anyone else. In a two tier system [like Commons and Lords] pay lip service 
> > to some proportionality. 
> > In first past the post you have one man answering his constituency. With PP 
> > you have lists who are responsible to a diffuse electorate. 
> > 
> > Michael 
> > 
> > 
> > Dr  Michael Benjamin, 
> > Community Psychiatrist.
> > 
> > SKYPE: BEDENOGA
> > PHONE: +972-505-317772
> > BLOG: Times Of Israel ||Quora ||Jerusalem Post
> > AMAZON AUTHORS PAGE; 
> > myRay: Online CBT
> > 
> > |-----Original Message-----
> > |From: Leedslist [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matt
> > |Anderson
> > |Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:05 PM
> > |To: Richard Naef <[email protected]>
> > |Cc: Leeds List <[email protected]>
> > |Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> > |
> > |Don't get me started on that. I'm pro PR.
> > |
> > |As a "red Tory" I live in a safe labour seat. I hate what Corbyn is trying 
> > to do. But
> > |don't have any voice
> > |
> > |His legacy will be 10 years of unopposed Tory rule at least
> > |
> > |Sent from my iPhone
> > |
> > |> On 24 May 2017, at 14:55, Richard Naef <[email protected]>
> > |wrote:
> > |>
> > |> I'm of the opinion if you live in a democratic society and benefit from 
> > that,
> > |you've also got to accept responsibility for decisions made by 
> > democratically
> > |elected politicians.
> > |>
> > |> Blair went to parliament, who voted by a large majority to back him.  
> > That's
> > |how things work in a democracy, flawed tho it may be (esp with our 
> > ridiculous
> > |voting system)
> > |>
> > |> ttfn
> > |>
> > |> Richard
> > |>
> > |> -----Original Message-----
> > |> From: Matt Anderson [mailto:[email protected]]
> > |> Sent: 24 May 2017 14:03
> > |> To: Richard Naef <[email protected]>
> > |> Cc: Leeds List <[email protected]>
> > |> Subject: Re: [LU] : Manchester
> > |>
> > |> "War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
> > |consequences."
> > |>
> > |> Exactly!  However that choice to get into a war was made for us! 
> > Political self
> > |interest globally is to blame and our politicians were complicit but not 
> > in our
> > |name
> > |>
> > |> Sent from my iPhone
> > |>
> > |>> On 24 May 2017, at 13:47, Richard Naef <richard@triumph-
> > |computers.co.uk> wrote:
> > |>>
> > |>> War is hell, don't get involved in one if you aren't ready to face the
> > |consequences.
> > |>
> > |
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