Not an oil problem. Ran it in 70 and 74 Karmen Ghia's, No problem, Virg
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 20:54:06 -0400 James Ferris <mij...@juno.com> writes: > I put that stuff in my VW bus in 1980 when it had omly 25,000 miles > and > in the next 1,500 miles it droped a valve and destroyed theentire > engine.I hope it has been improved since then. > Jim > On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:39:48 -0400 VIRGIL N SALISBURY > <virg...@juno.com> > writes: > > AMSOIL 10W-40, of course, Virg. Note signature line ; ) > > > > On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:53:42 -0500 "countryhomeprint" > > <countryhomepr...@bellsouth.net> writes: > > > My 2180 Volkswagen now has 23 hours on it since rebuild and > first > > > > > flight. I > > > have been using a 30 weight oil. When the 25 hour inspection and > > > > oilchange > > > comes about, what weight multi-grade oil do you recommend. All > of > > my > > > > > > temperatures stay well within the recommended limits. > > > > > > Bill Page > > > boliverp...@bellsouth.net > > > N880AB > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <beverlyrai...@bellsouth.net> > > > To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 11:15 AM > > > Subject: Re: Re: KR> oils and stuff > > > > > > > > > > Hello Phil > > > > Thanks for the email and tell Ron I appreciate the time it > took > > > > > him to > > > > reply, and the length of his explanation. He is busy running > a > > > > > business > > > > so I know he made some sacrifice, even if it means sleep! LOL > > > > > > > > I will agree that all oils have improved over the years, they > > > > would have > > > > to. It would be stupid to not include advances in straight > > weights > > > found > > > > in multi's. And some of Rons points about the merits of > single > > > > > visc oils > > > > I also agree with. I believe all engines should be broken in > on > > > > > single > > > > visc oils. The multi's do have too many additives that can end > > > up > > > burnt or > > > > not providing enough cushion lube to closely machined parts. > We > > > > > are also > > > > making some broad statements, because Oil Companies are known > > > for > > > changing > > > > oil and fuels to suit different climates AND different > markets. > > > > > > > > The early 70's engines and late 60's engines are probably the > > > best > > > know > > > > around the world. Most other engines are measured against > these > > > > > engines. > > > > However, they are two full generations back from today's > advanced > > > > > engines. > > > > Those engines were kept at 160 to 165 degrees because water > > pump, > > > > > > > radiator, coolant, and oil technology could not keep them cool > > > if > > > they ran > > > > hotter. This has a negative effect on fuel atomization and > > > combustion > > > > chamber efficiency. Here we need things to be the hottest it > can > > > > > be > > > > without causing the fuel to flash ignite or become complete > > vapor > > > prior to > > > > entering the chamber itself. > > > > > > > > Late 90's and engines of the 2000's are designed to attempt to > > > > maximize > > > > these parameters. They have thermostats that do not open until > > > 195 > > > degrees > > > > and are fully open between 205 and 210F. Then system hovers > the > > > > > temp > > > > between 205 and 220 relying on thermostat, and the coolant > > > properties and > > > > pressure to prevent the coolant from boiling over. These > modern > > > > > multi > > > > oils also need over 140 degrees before they even begin to > > activate > > > the > > > > additives within them. An engine maintained at or near 160 > will > > > > > never be > > > > able to benefit from a multi oil and will in fact do damage. > > > However, this > > > > engine will also have a short life due to this low temp, as > > > engineers of > > > > late have found, due to the fact that the metal is "cold" too > > > much > > > of the > > > > time effecting everything from the fuel atomization to the > > > strength of the > > > > crank. Mixtures will have to be richer, which causes more > > cylinder > > > wash, > > > > shortens any oil's life. The crank is weaker possibly as much > as > > > > > by half, > > > > due to the fact that areas not flexing are around engine temp, > > > > while areas > > > > flexing and working are going up in temp, with a more brittle > > > > metal. I > > > > have always been told by those that know that metals break > > faster > > > in the > > > > winter than summer. > > > > > > > > A quick check of the temp ranges of operation for single vs > > multi > > > will > > > > reveal that there is no way a single visc oil can run well in > a > > > > > modern > > > > engine because it cannot adapt from 0 degrees in winter to > > > operation > > > > internally of 250 degrees, and then switch to temps of 70 > > degrees > > > to 130 > > > > degrees outside driving underhood temps to 400 degrees and > > > internal temps > > > > back up to 250 degrees. And all this with an engine that is > > > designed to > > > > begin driving after only a warmup of 30 seconds. > > > > > > > > Single visc oils can be used regularly if temps are paid > > attention > > > to and > > > > the weight adjusted accordingly. Most people do not go to the > > > > trouble > > > > hence the need to develop oils that adjust for you. My fear > is > > > > > that since > > > > alot of our readers do not know, they will not know the > > difference > > > and > > > > that could cause an engine failure. I agree that lack of such > > > > know how > > > > should be a screening tool for not allowing these people into > > > the > > > air, but > > > > somehow they make it up there any how. More and more builders > > > are > > > using > > > > engine combinations with modern settings, clearances and > metals > > > > > and need > > > > these multi's to survive. A case in point is the use of the > Geo > > > > > Metro 3 > > > > and 4 cylinder engines. These engines MUST use the thinner > 10w30 > > > > > or 5w30 > > > > oils or their valve train will fail very soon after they are > put > > > > > into use, > > > > causing catastrophic failure. Their oil return holes in the > > heads > > > do not > > > > provide a large enough orifice to allow a thicker oil to > > > circulate, common > > > > among most all of the overhead cam engines. Depending on the > > > > version of > > > > the vortec engine they may also have to use a multi oil to be > > > > properly > > > > maintained. Single weight oils tend to be correct for too > narrow > > > > > of the > > > > temp range, making the possible extremes go outside their > design > > > > > range and > > > > begin breakdown. > > > > > > > > Especially in cases of engine sitting and getting part time > use > > > > > the > > > > multi's are particularly necessary due to the fact that when > the > > > > > oil was > > > > added it may have been summer but now is winter and a single > > visc > > > will not > > > > be able to handle the range of temps and may not pump > initially > > > > > when > > > > started. Multi's will thin due to additives and circulate > > > immediately. > > > > Even looking at the popular Corvair motor, the temps it will > > > operate in is > > > > outside air maybe 60 degrees and then will be working hard > > > climbing and > > > > soaring to head temps of over 300 degrees. Single visc oils > > cannt > > > adjust > > > > for this wide variation in temps, so either you have one that > > > > handles the > > > > low temp part, or the high temp, but not both. If singles > could > > do > > > this, > > > > there would be no need for the multi's any more. If VW's are > > > supposed to > > > > operate similar to the Corvair, then you can see a single used > > > > after > > > > breakin will sacrifice durability and longevity. > > > > > > > > Colin > > > > N96TA > > > >> > > > >> From: "Phil Matheson" <mathes...@dodo.com.au> > > > >> Date: 2006/06/24 Sat PM 10:30:26 EDT > > > >> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> > > > >> Subject: Re: KR> oils and stuff > > > >> > > > >> Colin Wrote :Just for the record I will say this is foolish > and > > > > > >> potentially > > > >> catastrophic > > > >> ---------------------------------------------------- > > > >> This is a reply from Ron Slender VW Engines, > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Phill, > > > >> I would like Colin to have a look at the article on oils I > sent > > > > > you. > > > >> Agreed > > > >> that the refining processes are much more advanced from years > > > > gone by > > > >> however > > > >> that applies to all viscosities of oil including single > > > viscosity. > > > >> The reality is that single viscosity oils handle a higher > heat > > > > > range > > > >> better > > > >> than a multigrade. > > > >> Additionally a multigrade was primarily developed so that an > > > auto > > > engine > > > >> could start at a relatively cold condition and gradually > reach > > > > > operating > > > >> temperature which in most vehicles is around 160/180 > degrees. > > > >> > > > >> Multigrade oils have a lot of polymers and additives to give > > > the > > > oil the > > > >> viscosity but do nothing to help lubrication, in fact they > > break > > > down in > > > >> high temp conditions. > > > >> > > > >> Single viscosity can handle the higher temps better. > > Additionally > > > the oil > > > >> tends to "cling " better for cold starts much like the sticky > > > > Shell oil > > > >> used > > > >> for aircraft because not all aircraft are used every day. > Some > > > > > oils can > > > >> drain off providing high friction starts until oil pressure > is > > > > > there. > > > >> > > > >> I believe that you have to know a lot about the environment > the > > > > > aircraft > > > >> is > > > >> operating in and recommend the oil according to the > > application. > > > >> Additionally Phil's engine is basically new and oils that > have > > > > > friction > > > >> modifiers and high range of viscosity will effect the running > > > in > > > of that > > > >> engine. > > > >> After Phill has reached 50 hours then he make look at > > alternative > > > oil > > > >> options. > > > >> However we have used straight 30 ; 40 ; & even 50 (very hot > > > conditions) > > > >> and > > > >> the Shell oil for aircraft for air cooled engines. > > > >> We do not use multigrade because of the fear that friction > > > modifiers are > > > >> often used in these types of oils which inhibit running in. > > > >> > > > >> Colin, your article on HP and how it effects speed was very > > good > > > >> demonstrating that hotting up an engine can only increase > > overall > > > speed > > > >> marginally. Without going into elaborate equations the power > > > > difference > > > >> was > > > >> 35 HP and the actual Torque increase using 2500 rpm as a > > constant > > > the > > > >> extra > > > >> Torque created by adding an extra 35 HP was only 63 ft lbs > and > > > > > that was > > > >> at > > > >> full power. > > > >> Same goes for our gear drive engines. We have the Torque that > > > say > > > a 100 > > > >> hp > > > >> creates at 4200 , the reduction drive multiplies the Torque > by > > > > > the ratio > > > >> on > > > >> top of this. As long as a respectable size prop can be used > to > > > > > benefit > > > >> from > > > >> the extra Torque gain then the advantages of a reduction > drive > > is > > > clear. > > > >> Because of the extra torque gain take off roll is reduced > > > particularly > > > >> when > > > >> loaded, climb out is great and cruise is probably achieved at > a > > > > > lower > > > >> throttle setting because of the prop diameter and available > > > torque. > > > >> A reduction drive will not necessarily provide a higher speed > > > > because > > > >> this > > > >> is a character of the aircrafts drag as Colin explains. > > > >> > > > >> The propeller has not even been discussed. Fixed pitch is a > > > compromise, > > > >> that > > > >> we all except as being the norm because anything else is > > > expensive. > > > >> Why not fit a suitable in flight adjustable propeller then > you > > > > > will see > > > >> some > > > >> performance. > > > >> Trouble is the cost of one of those, but ...I would rather > > spend > > > money in > > > >> that direction then spend lots of $`s trying to squeeze out a > > > few > > > extra > > > >> HP > > > >> out of an engine for very little gain. > > > >> > > > >> Not quite with you on oil Colin but I did like your thoughts > on > > > > > HP and > > > >> drag. > > > >> > > > >> Ron Slender > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Phillip Matheson > > > >> 0408665880 (cell) > > > >> VHPKR > > > >> Australia. > > > >> mathes...@dodo.com.au > > > >> NEW WEB PAGE > > > >> www.philskr2.50megs.com > > > >> > > > >> http://www.vw-engines.com/ > > > >> OLD WEB PAGE > > > >> http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________ > > > >> Search the KRnet Archives at > > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > > > krnet-le...@mylist.net > > > >> please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > > > krnet-le...@mylist.net > > > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > > krnet-le...@mylist.net > > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL > > www.lubedealer.com/salisbury > > Miami ,Fl > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > krnet-le...@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl
