Hi Kristoffer, I didn't show in my mockup, but you could easily use a UI like this to show modifier keys info as well.
-Jon On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 8:36 AM, Kristoffer Ödmark < kristofferodmar...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Jon, > > I do not think that the hotkeys are a problem. The right-click menu shows > how they are bound already and the right click menu is adaptable. I > personally like the way that works a lot. > > It is more a problem regarding the modifiers, Ie buttons that must be held > while doing something, they are not selecting stuff, but modifiying already > existing functionality, usually slightly. > > - Kristoffer > > On 03/15/2017 02:29 PM, Jon Evans wrote: > >> Hi Kristoffer, John, >> >> I agree this is an important problem to solve. >> >> I am not convinced that this is the perfect solution, but I wanted to >> share a way a commercial tool does it. >> Here's a screenshot from Mentor Graphics Xpedition showing what I mean: >> http://i.imgur.com/H0wDK0F.png >> >> At the bottom of the screen is a list of keyboard shortcuts, that change >> based on what you are doing. So, when you are in "place components" >> mode the list is different than if you are routing a track, for >> example. The developers chose the most common things to do for each >> "tool" that can be active, and assigned them to function-keys. >> >> Note that in Xpedition, the hotkeys themselves change, i.e. the icons on >> the bottom of the screen always correspond to the function keys F1-F12. >> But, even without adopting that scheme (which would conflict with some >> of our existing hotkeys), we could use the UI concept of a larger "quick >> reference" to hotkeys (I'm including mouse actions in the definition of >> hotkeys here) at the bottom of the screen, for example a quick mockup: >> http://i.imgur.com/wB0Yecy.png >> >> Then we would just need to define up to N hotkeys for each tool / tool >> mode that should be hinted to the user. (Where N is some number that >> looks not too cramped) >> >> -Jon >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 7:11 AM, Kristoffer Ödmark >> <kristofferodmar...@gmail.com <mailto:kristofferodmar...@gmail.com>> >> wrote: >> >> Yes, the status line is way to small it. However it could maybe be >> used to show which modifiers are in use. Not what they do. >> >> I believe that knowing which modifiers are in use would be enough, >> because many modifiers would probably be very self explanatory once >> activated, for example the angle-snap, having a grid snap etc. >> >> Then the idea of having an explanatory panel available somehow >> on-demand would probably be best. >> >> Attached is an idea mockup for putting on the left side in the >> status line. >> >> It shows when the arc tool is active and has ctrl and shift modifers >> where ctrl is currently held and angle snap-active. >> >> >> >> On 03/15/2017 12:11 PM, John Beard wrote: >> >> Hi Kristoffer, >> >> I agree that the "secrecy" of KiCad shortcuts is a pretty major >> issue. >> It serves to make people good at KiCad think it's great, while new >> users struggle (probably in silence) because they don't know >> there's a >> better way. >> >> Expanding documentation is important here (he says, not having >> documented his new features yet) but it's unreasonable to expect >> users >> to wade through hundreds of screens of prose to be told >> incidentally >> that the arc tool snaps angles when you hold control. >> >> I certainly think some sort of easily accessible (at minimum >> hotkey + >> some sort of obvious visual affordance) method for a user to get >> contextual help is very important. Ideally something that doesn't >> break the user's flow. Popping a dialog that you have to dismiss >> is a >> little clunky, I feel. Perhaps some sort of panel that appears >> only >> while you're holding a key down? >> >> I'm not a huge fan of the Inkscape-style status line, though it's >> certainly better than nothing. It feels squeezed to me, since the >> information is really more like a list of possible modifiers than >> a >> one-liner. We do have a little area of the status bar that tells >> you >> what tool you're in, but that's nowhere near big enough to naively >> plonk screeds of text. >> >> tl;dr agree but no ideas yet! >> >> Cheers, >> >> John >> >> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 6:34 PM, Kristoffer Ödmark >> <kristofferodmar...@gmail.com >> <mailto:kristofferodmar...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Hello all! >> >> I just wanted to highlight an emerging problem to catch it >> in its cradle. >> >> The new tool and dialog patches that has been merged are >> great. But they >> also introduce secret functionaly, examples: >> >> Ctrl + click: highlights net ( modifier to select tool ) >> ctrl + drag: snap angles in arc tool >> shift + click: adds/removes to selection in select mode >> shift + scroll: changes increment values in 3d-previewer >> >> These are the few examples I found right now, what I would >> like to see is a >> standardized way of informing the users to this before more >> tools get these >> hidden functionality. >> >> The way that current shortcuts are indicated I think are >> great ( the grey >> text next to their selection in menus Maybe we could expand >> on this to >> create tooltips to the menus with a list of modifier keys >> for the hovered >> tool in the menu. >> >> Another way that Gimp uses is to put this information at the >> bottom >> information bar, Maybe we could do that as well by modifying >> the current >> position information bar >> >> Yet another way would be to have tool specific settings >> given screen >> real-estate, much in the way of gimp and inkscape. >> >> At least I think this issue should be addressed and agreed >> upon before tools >> specify their different modifiers willy-nilly all over the >> place and you >> need a kicad-phd to remember them all. Just having an idea >> on how to do it >> can enable a good team-effort of supporting it. >> >> -- >> -Kristoffer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >> >> >> -- >> -Kristoffer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >> >> >> > -- > -Kristoffer >
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