But who do you think you are for taking a 'tone' that is harder? Are you paying the developers and they're not doing what you ask? No. Are you a contributer with a track record of delivering valuable code? No. Are you some random guy who gets abusive in bug reports and then stamps his feet in the mailing list like a petulant 2 year old when he doesn't get his way? Bingo!
People have taken great pains to explain to you over and again that KDE is in the vast majority a volunteer effort. They have explained the nature of contribution and that sometimes people walk away from code leaving it un-maintained and that without new developers it is not always possible to cover that loss quickly. To make this clear: you are not helping, you are hurting. Your contributions to bug reports do more to demotivate than any information they provide helps. You are spamming a mailing list with an off-topic temper tantrum and have frustrated people who are in a position to help to the point where they are actively deciding not to. Just stop. On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Reindl Harald <h.rei...@thelounge.net>wrote: > thank you! > > the half-year no feedback and having this bug over > major-releases and a lot of minor releases was the > only reason for my tone and my tone will get harder > everytime i get a useless "why do you not fix it" > > the whole KDE4.0 release makes me angry years later > because it was a epic fail call it "4.0", wait for > distributions prepare it for the next version and > say later "but only for developers" > > Am 21.09.2011 15:52, schrieb Sven Burmeister: > > Am Mittwoch, 21. September 2011, 20:17:57 schrieb Brad Hards: > >> I see lots of comments, so many people care. However there are a lot of > >> negative comments, so working on such a bug is pretty disheartening for > a > >> developer. > > That's true! True as well is that most often the rate of negative > comments > > increases with the time the bug gets no attention or stays unfixed, i.e. > most > > reports start reasonable. After some time ~one month (one minor release) > > people start to not understand why there is no feedback/fix although > there are > > potentially lots of confirmations/dups and offers to help testing > patches. > > Especially if users try to help by testing patches (i.e. contribute what > they > > are able to) and their attempt to help does not trigger any reaction from > the > > devs. And don't get me wrong, I'm talking about bugs reproducible on > different > > distros and by several users and not feature requests or "personal" bugs. > > > > If you want a "perfect" example of this check > > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=278891. > > > > So it is true as well that "real" bugs are not worked on although they > have no > > negative comments for over a month and even a helpful audience. Not > saying > > that one can demand anything – just stating that "bugs are not fixed > because > > of the negative comments" is not a valid argument per se and of course > the > > "conversation" within a bug report changes over time and that devs do > play a > > role in it. To put it provocative – if you wait long enough every bug > report > > will get a negative comment and thus can be marked as "users' fault that > no > > dev works on it". Of course this also means that those reporting bugs and > > staying polite are punished because of the people that post comments > weeks > > later. > > > >> When I read stuff that is nasty, mean or abusive, I often find something > >> else to do. Remember that this is a hobby for almost all developers. > > Very true. True as well though is that if somebody introduces a > regression – > > it is reasonable that one expects the same person to show some interest > in the > > issue and taking care of fixing it. It's not that easy to find that > person but > > as a rule of thumb that's how reasonable people act in a community. If > you > > brake something you fix it. > > > >> Another way to look at this is "why haven't you fixed it in the last six > >> months". If you don't know how, why haven't you learned? > > On its own that's really a bit of a killer argument and a bit too easy. > Just > > apply it to every day's life and you will see that there are lots of > things > > you criticise because you care yet do not learn in order to change them. > > > > And one should distinguish between different bits. Demanding a feature, a > bug > > fix or a regression fix are different things. And demanding that broken > things > > are fixed is not per se wrong – in contrary. The tone can be wrong and > the > > style of doing so. No doubt. > > > > And of course one could contribute in other ways than learning, e.g. pay > > developers for bugs/features that are really annoying or important to > > oneself/a company but not important enough to the KDE devs to fix them. > ~280 > > votes on the bug – x bugs for the fix. :-) To me it would not make sense > to > > tell people that they cannot demand something because they get it for > free but > > reject that they pay for it as well. > > > > To me the tone he used is not ok. But I do understand that if there is a > bug > > (not feature request), reproducible on different distros and by many > users > > with a lot of votes and hardly any attention from the devs over months – > that > > it leads to questions regarding the commitment to fixing bugs of that bit > of > > the KDE project. Even more so if a bug is due to a regression i.e. > somebody > > broke code and does not care about fixing it. I'm not saying that this is > the > > case here - but those issues exist and lead to frustration on user side – > as > > the tone he used leads to frustration on dev side. Denying one or the > other > > would be quite narrow minded IMO. > > > > So IMHO it would be useful to distinguish between the reasonable > statements > > and the tone. Though I fully agree that it can be expected of adult > people to > > skip the frustration when commenting and just stick to the facts. > > > > So for this bug the facts are that the folder view is a very prominent > widget > > and that renaming is a basic operation. The bug seems to be reproducible > by > > x+1 users on x+1 distros and thus seems "real". > > > > So who does he have to ask politely in order to get this fixed? And if > asking > > politely is not what leads to a fix – what else could be done to avoid > the > > blaming game when it comes to bugs (x+1 users on x+1 distros) that stay > > unfixed for weeks and months? Especially if it is a regression. > > > > Sven > > > >>> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to > unsubscribe << > > -- > > Mit besten Grüßen, Reindl Harald > the lounge interactive design GmbH > A-1060 Vienna, Hofmühlgasse 17 > CTO / software-development / cms-solutions > p: +43 (1) 595 3999 33, m: +43 (676) 40 221 40 > icq: 154546673, http://www.thelounge.net/ > > http://www.thelounge.net/signature.asc.what.htm > > > > > >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to > unsubscribe << > >
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