thank you! the half-year no feedback and having this bug over major-releases and a lot of minor releases was the only reason for my tone and my tone will get harder everytime i get a useless "why do you not fix it"
the whole KDE4.0 release makes me angry years later because it was a epic fail call it "4.0", wait for distributions prepare it for the next version and say later "but only for developers" Am 21.09.2011 15:52, schrieb Sven Burmeister: > Am Mittwoch, 21. September 2011, 20:17:57 schrieb Brad Hards: >> I see lots of comments, so many people care. However there are a lot of >> negative comments, so working on such a bug is pretty disheartening for a >> developer. > That's true! True as well is that most often the rate of negative comments > increases with the time the bug gets no attention or stays unfixed, i.e. most > reports start reasonable. After some time ~one month (one minor release) > people start to not understand why there is no feedback/fix although there > are > potentially lots of confirmations/dups and offers to help testing patches. > Especially if users try to help by testing patches (i.e. contribute what they > are able to) and their attempt to help does not trigger any reaction from the > devs. And don't get me wrong, I'm talking about bugs reproducible on > different > distros and by several users and not feature requests or "personal" bugs. > > If you want a "perfect" example of this check > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=278891. > > So it is true as well that "real" bugs are not worked on although they have > no > negative comments for over a month and even a helpful audience. Not saying > that one can demand anything – just stating that "bugs are not fixed because > of the negative comments" is not a valid argument per se and of course the > "conversation" within a bug report changes over time and that devs do play a > role in it. To put it provocative – if you wait long enough every bug report > will get a negative comment and thus can be marked as "users' fault that no > dev works on it". Of course this also means that those reporting bugs and > staying polite are punished because of the people that post comments weeks > later. > >> When I read stuff that is nasty, mean or abusive, I often find something >> else to do. Remember that this is a hobby for almost all developers. > Very true. True as well though is that if somebody introduces a regression – > it is reasonable that one expects the same person to show some interest in > the > issue and taking care of fixing it. It's not that easy to find that person > but > as a rule of thumb that's how reasonable people act in a community. If you > brake something you fix it. > >> Another way to look at this is "why haven't you fixed it in the last six >> months". If you don't know how, why haven't you learned? > On its own that's really a bit of a killer argument and a bit too easy. Just > apply it to every day's life and you will see that there are lots of things > you criticise because you care yet do not learn in order to change them. > > And one should distinguish between different bits. Demanding a feature, a bug > fix or a regression fix are different things. And demanding that broken > things > are fixed is not per se wrong – in contrary. The tone can be wrong and the > style of doing so. No doubt. > > And of course one could contribute in other ways than learning, e.g. pay > developers for bugs/features that are really annoying or important to > oneself/a company but not important enough to the KDE devs to fix them. ~280 > votes on the bug – x bugs for the fix. :-) To me it would not make sense to > tell people that they cannot demand something because they get it for free > but > reject that they pay for it as well. > > To me the tone he used is not ok. But I do understand that if there is a bug > (not feature request), reproducible on different distros and by many users > with a lot of votes and hardly any attention from the devs over months – that > it leads to questions regarding the commitment to fixing bugs of that bit of > the KDE project. Even more so if a bug is due to a regression i.e. somebody > broke code and does not care about fixing it. I'm not saying that this is the > case here - but those issues exist and lead to frustration on user side – as > the tone he used leads to frustration on dev side. Denying one or the other > would be quite narrow minded IMO. > > So IMHO it would be useful to distinguish between the reasonable statements > and the tone. Though I fully agree that it can be expected of adult people to > skip the frustration when commenting and just stick to the facts. > > So for this bug the facts are that the folder view is a very prominent widget > and that renaming is a basic operation. The bug seems to be reproducible by > x+1 users on x+1 distros and thus seems "real". > > So who does he have to ask politely in order to get this fixed? And if asking > politely is not what leads to a fix – what else could be done to avoid the > blaming game when it comes to bugs (x+1 users on x+1 distros) that stay > unfixed for weeks and months? Especially if it is a regression. > > Sven > >>> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe << -- Mit besten Grüßen, Reindl Harald the lounge interactive design GmbH A-1060 Vienna, Hofmühlgasse 17 CTO / software-development / cms-solutions p: +43 (1) 595 3999 33, m: +43 (676) 40 221 40 icq: 154546673, http://www.thelounge.net/ http://www.thelounge.net/signature.asc.what.htm
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