From: Jamie Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "I spend a lot of time looking after kids that aren't mine, simply because I like doing it. You can rest assured that if/when it comes to having kids of my own, I will be spending a *lot* of time looking after them. Despite this, the prevailing attitudes in this country (and many others judging by comments here) mean that I would have very little chance of getting custody in a relationship breakup. "And I don't think that's any more fair than the glass ceilings for women in employment. Personally (I don't expect anyone else to agree) I'd be glad to trade salary and promotion opportunities for a fair shot at keeping hold of any kids I might have in future. Obviously I don't _plan_ on ever being in that situation, but who knows?" Contrary to popular opinion defacto maternal custody is hardly the standard. At home I have a book on custody and child support and it brings up some interesting figures. The majority of the time the mother wants custody and the father doesn't. When cases go to court the majority of the time (something like 70% if I remember correctly) the custody ordered is joint custody. (If anyone is interested in exact figures on this I can dig them up when I get home.) It's very rare for a mother to get sole custody with no visitation or even supervised visitation EVEN when there is abuse involved. I know of one mother (contrary to Deidre's impressions, I know people besides myself and my ex) who is fighting now because her ex kidnapped her child and the court is on HIS side. She is deemed a bad mother because she has roommates while her ex is shacking up with someone. She has to let her son go to his father's every weekend, even with the threat of him being kidnapped again. Another mother I know lived in my building until early this spring. Last fall she had federal marshals come into her home and forcibly remove her children (I've seen security shots of the children being dragged away, one naked except for a blanket -- in November). Her children were sent back to the father who was abusive and had threatened to kill the mother (I believe in front of the kids, but I could be wrong). She hasn't been allowed to see or talk to her children since. On the other hand, I know a number of parents that have workable joint custody. With my background I find it absolutely amazing that this happens at all. (My parents can't be on the same coast let alone the same room :-) _______________________________________________ issues mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linux.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/issues