On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Mark <mark...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Lester Caine <les...@lsces.co.uk> wrote: > > Stas Malyshev wrote: > >> > >> Hi! > >> > >>> I wasn't assuming. I was outright making a factual statement. I never > >>> made any implications of the intellectual levels of those implementing > >>> the spec. I understand the RFC full well and know why the design is > >>> the way it is. I was answering the ops question. Please read what I > >>> said before you make your own assumptions. > >> > >> > >> Sorry, statements like "haphazard way", "never well designed", "it's a > >> mess", "they don't really resemble namespaces", "just some fancy magic", > >> etc. have nothing to do with facts. Actually, facts are exactly the > >> opposite - they were designed, were extensively discussed with > >> soliciting feedback from many stakeholders, and were implemented exactly > >> as planned. You may not like the way there were implemented, that's your > >> opinion (not a fact) and you are entitled to it. But you didn't limit > >> yourself to saying "I don't like them". You specifically said that they > >> were never well designed and haphazardly implemented. This is factually > >> false. > > > > > > Stas ... One thing to bear in mind is that even for those of us for whom > > English is our only language it is sometimes difficult to explain what we > > mean. Sherif's were perhaps a little 'provocative' but were an accurate > > reflection of his view on the results of implementing namespaces. It is a > > compromise rather than something that sits naturally in PHP? > > > > What a lot of newcomers need to understand is that PHP is NOT compiled, > so a > > heck of a lot of what they are used to just happening is physically > > impossible, and namespace is a good case in point. Personally I have yet > to > > see a good example of the use of namespaces in third party libraries, and > > like Sherif avoid them preferring simply so that while the code may be > more > > verbose, it's clear 5 years later what was intended :) A lot of the > current > > 'magic' makes it difficult to pick up and work with other peoples code > later > > on. > > Right, i have to correct you there. > You don't explicitly say it, but you do think that i'm a "newcommer". > That's far from the truth. I've been using PHP since 2001 and i > consider myself to be quite advanced in PHP usage. > > Back on the namespace topic. I won't judge on anything, but i know > namespaces from c++. I understand that PHP isn't a compiled language > and quite frankly that doesn't matter at all. What does matter is that > PHP uses the name: "namespace" which C++ obviously had earlier. > Naturally someone that knows both languaes (c++ and php) simply assume > that a namespace in php probably works the same as those in C++. If > that's not the case then it shouldn't even carry the "namespace" name. >
Right, I have to correct you there. Just because a namespace doesn't act like C++'s namespace implementation doesn't mean it's not a namespace. A namespace is just an abstract container which groups unique symbols (names). The PHP implementation does exactly that. > > To me this namespace in php stuff just looks like and alias. So why > isn't it named as that: "alias"? I do not want to question the ones > that implemented namespaces in php, but i do think that the name > itself is at the very least confusing. > Because it behaves as a namespace. Again, just because the implementation isn't what you're used to, or even like, it still groups identifiers in abstract containers. I realize that the implementation and ZE backend may cause some confusion with 'aliasing', but it's use case is the same. Also note: use Some\Ns\Class as MyClass; There's an alias for you. ;) > > Also, lets keep this discussion polite people. I'm not here to smash > toes. All i would like to know is the reasoning behind the above and > if there is any intention of changing the namespaces to be more c++ > like. > > Cheers, > Mark > > -- > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > >
