Hi Lennie,
When I became a SysProg in 1982, I became more familiar with the IBM
alphabet soup entries PP, FDP and IUP.
In today's world, not having PDF is laughable. Back then it was slightly
possible if corporations wanted to save money (and could live with only
TSO).
BTW, SDSF started life as an FDP. (I supported (IUP) ADRS-II.)
Believe it or not, PCF (actually, PCF-II) still exists as TSO Command
Limiting in ACF2. Some of my employers use it, even though it is
completely useless. (I opened a case with Broadcom on this topic. They
reluctantly agreed with me.)
Regards,
David
On 2024-08-18 06:24, Lennie Bradshaw wrote:
David,
Yes, I remember that name change too. The original scripting language used for
SPF panels was way simpler than the sophistication we have now. Of course ISPF
then split into two products, ISPF and PDF. I always felt that was a little
silly. I never came across anyone who only had one of the products.
FDP stands for Field Developed Program. I think it referred to products
developed in the field for specific customers rather than developed in software
labs. Other FDPs I have encountered include PCF which provided controls over
who could execute which TSO commands. This was in the days before RACF of
course. I think maybe JES328x was also originally an FDP. You can find a short
discussion about FDPs in this Wikipedia article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Type-III_Library
Lennie
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
David Spiegel
Sent: 18 August 2024 02:41
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 3270 programming
HI Lennie,
The "P" in ISPF was changed to "Productivity" (from "Programming").
I was still in university and had no clue what "FDP" meant.
Regards,
David
On 2024-08-16 19:34, Lennie Bradshaw wrote:
David,
Yes, I remember that. Was it an FDP? I used it on MVS 3.8. Its full-screen
editing capabilities were a wonder after using TSO EDIT!
But this was after I had already written the 3270 programs.
ISPF followed on after the success of SPF.
Lennie
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On
Behalf Of David Spiegel
Sent: 16 August 2024 17:34
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 3270 programming
Hi Lennie,
"... (in the late 1970s) I wrote some program for TSO using 3270 protocols. This was
in the days before ISPF ..."
I Used ISPF's predecessor in the late '70s. (It was called SPF -- Structured
Programming Facility).
Regards,
David
On 2024-08-16 09:13, Lennie Bradshaw wrote:
Seymour,
That is interesting. I was unaware the protocol had been externalised from IBM.
I guess this absolves them of the responsibility of providing documentation as
well.
Phil asked what was the original posters requirement. Well years ago (in the late 1970s)
I wrote some program for TSO using 3270 protocols. This was in the days before ISPF and
before the extended attribute support was available. I have been involved in such
programs rarely since then, but have maintained some knowledge of the protocol. I have
somewhere a "Green Book" which has all the tables and so on, but I have mislaid
it. I had to make some changes to a VTAM USS table recently and was looking for the
specifications for the control strings I could use. As I couldn't find my Green Book, I
looked online and could not see where IBM had this documented.
Hence my questions.
The website that Sebastian found was really useful.
Many thanks to all who contributed. I will try and butt out now.
Lennie
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List<[email protected]> On
Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: 16 August 2024 12:56
To:[email protected]
Subject: Re: 3270 programming
I would start with RFC 2355, TN3270
Enhancements<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc2355/>
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List<[email protected]> on
behalf of Mike Schwab<[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2024 11:12 PM To:[email protected]
Subject: Re: 3270 programming
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos-basic-skills?topic=terminal-3270-data
-
stream
Specifically listed but no link,
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 7:45 PM Tom Brennan<[email protected]> wrote:
I don't think TN3270/TN3270E protocols are related to this manual.
They're basically just a layer used to pass the binary 3270 data
stream back and forth.
But Lennie has a good point. I have a printed copy -05 from 1990
and it's pretty beat up. I seem to remember it on an IBM doc site
until
(guessing) 2005 or so, then it was suddenly gone. Maybe someone
made a mistake in removing it, because it's certainly required for
anybody who wants to code their own 3720 screens, or simply wants to
know how things work.
On 8/15/2024 5:33 PM, Ken Bloom wrote:
3270 is supported via tn3270 and tn3270E. That’s the protocol supported by
IBM OSA or Visara CCA3074 etc. You can probably find some old coax manuals
for native 3270.
Ken
Kenneth A. Bloom
CEO
Avenir Technologies Inc
/d/b/a Visara International
203-984-2235<tel:203-984-2235>
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
http://www.visara.com/<http://www.visara.com/>
On Aug 15, 2024, at 8:22 PM, Lennie Bradshaw<[email protected]>
wrote:
So if the protocol is still supported, and still used, and still a valid
programming interface, why is there no *current* manual available from IBM
documenting it?
Lennie
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List<[email protected]> On
Behalf Of Jay Maynard
Sent: 15 August 2024 23:02
To:[email protected]
Subject: Re: 3270 programming
I think IBM still supports 3270 access, if not the 3270s themselves.
But if the data stream hasn't changed since the -7 manual was published,
there's no need for an update...
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 4:54 PM Paul Gilmartin
<[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 15:16:15 -0500, Mike Schwab wrote:
There have been no updates.
Does IBM continue to support the device? If not, there's little
business case to provide user's manuals.
Regardless, some documentation is necessary as long as IBM products
depend on 3270 data streams.
--
gil
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
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