Haha. You said it. So you think OMVS and Cygwin are similar. LOLZ. > On 2 Jun 2023, at 21:33, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote: > > That sure sounds like "a shim or abstraction layer" to me. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of > David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, June 2, 2023 1:06 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: z/OS 3.1: Now UNIXR Certified > >> On 2/6/2023 1:20 am, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> How do you think that IBM implemented HFS and zFS? It's all STARTIO under >> the covers, the same as for, e.g., QSAM, VTAM. >> >> The same for other OS services. Nothing from OpenEdition through Unix System >> Services ran on bare metal; it all used MVS services. That's in stark >> contrast to Linux on z, which does its own SSCH, dispatching, etc. > > I never claimed that it runs on bare metal. That was your assumption. > What I meant to convey is that it's not simply a shim. Let's take the > example of the sleep function. When you call sleep, it's not just a thin > API layer that directly calls STIMER. Instead, the syscall invokes a PC > which executes code within the OMVS kernel. This program has an entry in > the process table, can be interrupted by signals, and so on. Whether or > not it utilizes MVS services is not relevant to my point. It's simply > stating the obvious.. > > >> >> -- >> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of >> David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2023 9:50 AM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Re: z/OS 3.1: Now UNIXR Certified >> >>> On 1/6/2023 9:40 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote: >>> It's a real Unix subsystem, but it certainly uses native services, e.g., >>> STARTIO. >> How does STARTIO relate to a UNIX kernel? The Linux kernel operates on >> nearly all platforms without requiring any understanding of proprietary >> I/O subsystems. >> >> >>> >>> -- >>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of >>> David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2023 9:36 AM >>> To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>> Subject: Re: z/OS 3.1: Now UNIXR Certified >>> >>> On 1/6/2023 9:22 pm, Rick Troth wrote: >>>> On 6/1/23 06:27, Matt Hogstrom wrote: >>>>> Similar experience. Not sure if its the same person but I had >>>>> dinner with Jeff Nick (former Felllow with Z) and his story was that >>>>> they needed Posix to meet a Federal requirement. He also said that >>>>> it was contentious internally and so they assembled a team and >>>>> isolated them from the others so they could make fast progress. >>>> Dunno where it fits into the story, but I noticed that they used >>>> Mortice Kern Systems "MKS Toolkit" for much of the required Unix/POSIX >>>> utilities. (In Linux land, we'd say "the user space stuff".) >>>> That impressed me because MKS Toolkit did the same thing for MS >>>> Windows, a very rich approximation of Unix on top of another system. >>>> Leveraging MKS TK was a brilliant step. >>>> >>> It cost IBM a ton of money to take ownership of the MKS code. The kernel >>> space (OMVS) is implemented using two PC routines that implement the >>> syscalls. IIRC, one is SS and the other is CP, so they must have >>> different functions. Either way, OMVS is a real UNIX subsystem running >>> on z/OS. It's not a shim or abstraction layer on top of native services. >>> >>> >>>>> In an update on how they were doing they were finally able to fork a >>>>> process. He said it was more like foooooooooorrrrrrrrkkkkkkkk. >>>>> Clearly, they fixed the performance and little did they know that it >>>>> was such a critical decision for the platform that it saved z/OS. I >>>>> think K8s is the USS of yesteryear. No one knows it yet but it will >>>>> add another 25 years to the platform. >>>>> >>>>> Matt Hogstrom >>>>> PGP key 0F143BC1 >>>> 0xF4292E2D2B970780 and others >>>> >>>> >>>>>> On Jun 1, 2023, at 05:34, David Crayford<dcrayf...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I've worked with a few ex-OE guys, including my close colleague who >>>>>> used to the IBM DE running the OE project out of POK. Let me tell >>>>>> you, some of the stories they have are absolutely fascinating! It's >>>>>> my understanding that the POSIX certification was mainly pursued to >>>>>> meet the requirements set by NASA. But here's an interesting twist: >>>>>> NASA doesn't run a mainframe anymore. >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>>> send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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