There is a PTF for IBM Markup R100, 5669-326, volid 3102, PTF # IP00082, flagged as Corrective Service, on 3.5 and 5.25 diskettes.
Message originated on my iPhone 12 > On Dec 27, 2022, at 11:10 AM, Bill <[email protected]> wrote: > > The IBM Markup User’s Guide and Tutorial publication number is S544-3350-00, > Dept. V53, P.O. Box 1900, Boulder, CO 80301-9191. > > Message originated on my iPhone 12 > >> On Dec 27, 2022, at 11:04 AM, Bill <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I have a pristine, complete boxed copy of IBM Markup in 3.5 and 5.25 >> diskettes. IBM Markup, Version 1.0, part no. 6476161, dated 10/1987, >> S544-3357-00, is described in the license information as “… an IBM Personal >> Computer entry-assist program that allows you to create and edit GML >> documents using DCF R3.0 or 3.1+ running in either VM/CMS or MVS/TSO.” >> Central Service terminated 10/16/1990. >> >> This program requires DOS 2.1 or 3.3 for a file transfer program to the >> mainframe. >> >> Message originated on my iPhone 12 >> >>>> On Dec 26, 2022, at 9:00 PM, IBM-MAIN automatic digest system >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> There are 12 messages totaling 546 lines in this issue. >>> >>> Topics of the day: >>> >>> 1. Markup languages (2) >>> 2. Markup languages - more on the shortcomings of MS Word (10) >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 14:10:56 +0000 >>> From: Seymour J Metz <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages >>> >>> I doubt it, since mark was primarily interested in XEDIT compatibility. >>> Similarly, I don't expect to see a chart comparint e.g., ooRexx, Regina, to >>> KEXX. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [[email protected]] on behalf of >>> Jeremy Nicoll [[email protected]] >>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2022 3:07 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages >>> >>>>> On Fri, 23 Dec 2022, at 12:51, Seymour J Metz wrote: >>>> emacs >>>> THE >>>> vi >>>> ... >>> >>> I've never used either emacs or vi and don't much want to have to >>> learn another text editor's command set. >>> >>> Regarding THE, is there a list anywhere of what the differences between >>> it and Kedit are? Wading through the THE documentation looking at >>> each command is tedious, and it's not helped by finding out that some >>> things are labelled "(not implemented)". >>> >>> >>>> You may have my copy of TSPF when they pry it out of my cold, dead >>>> fingers. >>> >>> I suspect that actually getting it from your estate might be tricky.... >>> >>> -- >>> Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 14:44:30 +0000 >>> From: Seymour J Metz <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages >>> >>> TeX is the underlying language. I believe that most people use a document >>> development environment with an editor and preview facility. Some of the >>> available environments can automatically download required packages from >>> CTAN. It is possible to generate a PDF without an intermediate DVI file. >>> >>> I'd start by looking at MiKTeX, TeX Live and TeXworks, or browse CTAN. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [[email protected]] on behalf of >>> Bob Bridges [[email protected]] >>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2022 6:38 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages >>> >>> I got quite a few nominations from the two forums where I posted this >>> question, and it's early days to say I've settled on one, but currently I'm >>> looking hard at LaTeX. I found a tutorial on it at javatpoint.com, but that >>> was written by a non-native-English writer (maybe he a Slav?, guessing by >>> his odd use of definite articles) and there are some phrases in there I >>> can't parse with confidence. I imagine whatever documentation comes with >>> the download will be clearer. >>> >>> But it seems there are multiple pieces I need to fetch. I get the >>> impression that TEX is the actual markup language, and LaTeX is ... what? A >>> series of extensions to TEX to allow it to do more? And I need a program >>> that will convert my text and markup codes to a printer-ready document, >>> and/or to a PDF file. And most people use a text editor specifically >>> dedicated to working with LaTeX; various options for that last are >>> mentioned. Do you have any specific recommendations? Because I think I'm >>> about ready to download and experiment. >>> >>> --- >>> Bob Bridges, [email protected], cell 336 382-7313 >>> >>> /* A person reveals his character by nothing so clearly as the joke he >>> resents. -G C Lichtenberg */ >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of >>> Seymour J Metz >>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2022 08:39 >>> >>> My preference, alas, is dead: BookMagager BUILD/MVS (or VM), which is built >>> on BookMaster and DCF. Lacking that, I make do with LaTeX, which I find >>> powerful but clumsier that the tools built on Script. >>> >>> I make extensive use of nested bulleted and numbered lists, and when I >>> attempt to copy an entry to a different list, word garbles the markup >>> horribly. Is there an equivalent to the reveal mode in word pervert that >>> would allow me to correct that bug? The best that I've been able to come up >>> with is to copy the entry to notepad and then copy from notepad. >>> >>> I would recommend a LaTeX environment, e.g., MiKTeX, TeXworks. Check out >>> resources at CTAN. >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 09:52:16 -0500 >>> From: Bob Bridges <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages - more on the shortcomings of MS Word >>> >>> Once we were done with Christmas morning, my son and his family took off for >>> other Christmas venues and I spent most of the day downloading MiKTeX (an >>> editor for LateX) and reading documentatino. Finding the documentation was >>> a bit of a chore and I'm not satisfied yet that I have everything I'll need, >>> but the web eventually yielded up manuals whose titles, at least, claim >>> they're about LaTeX, LaTeX2e, TeXWorks and MikTeX. I have a lot of reading >>> yet to do. >>> >>> This morning I emailed the Word document to myself and tried saving it as >>> PDF. Turns out Word is awful at that too. It skipped over most of the ToC >>> and jumped from there straight to the beginning of the second chapter, >>> omitting the Intro. I probably won't bother to see what else is wrong with >>> it. >>> >>> --- >>> Bob Bridges, [email protected], cell 336 382-7313 >>> >>> /* Do right, and God's recompense to you will be the power of doing more >>> right. Give, and God's reward to you will be the spirit of giving >>> more....Love, and God will pay you with the capacity of more love.... -F W >>> Robertson */ >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 16:02:32 +0000 >>> From: Seymour J Metz <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages - more on the shortcomings of MS Word >>> >>> If you will be writing your own macros, I'd suggest looking at expl3 (LaTeX >>> 3) and friends; still experimental, but quite handy. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [[email protected]] on behalf of >>> Bob Bridges [[email protected]] >>> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2022 9:52 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages - more on the shortcomings of MS Word >>> >>> Once we were done with Christmas morning, my son and his family took off for >>> other Christmas venues and I spent most of the day downloading MiKTeX (an >>> editor for LateX) and reading documentatino. Finding the documentation was >>> a bit of a chore and I'm not satisfied yet that I have everything I'll need, >>> but the web eventually yielded up manuals whose titles, at least, claim >>> they're about LaTeX, LaTeX2e, TeXWorks and MikTeX. I have a lot of reading >>> yet to do. >>> >>> This morning I emailed the Word document to myself and tried saving it as >>> PDF. Turns out Word is awful at that too. It skipped over most of the ToC >>> and jumped from there straight to the beginning of the second chapter, >>> omitting the Intro. I probably won't bother to see what else is wrong with >>> it. >>> >>> --- >>> Bob Bridges, [email protected], cell 336 382-7313 >>> >>> /* Do right, and God's recompense to you will be the power of doing more >>> right. Give, and God's reward to you will be the spirit of giving >>> more....Love, and God will pay you with the capacity of more love.... -F W >>> Robertson */ >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 10:54:10 -0600 >>> From: Charles Mills <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages - more on the shortcomings of MS Word >>> >>> I have avoided replying on this thread. It is not my job to shill for >>> Microsoft on a mainframe forum. >>> >>> However, just to get the facts on the record, let me say that I have been >>> composing very complex manuals with included text and generated TODs and >>> indexes in MS-Word for years, and publishing them as PDFs, with 100% >>> success. >>> >>> Charles >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] On >>> Behalf Of Bob Bridges >>> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2022 6:52 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages - more on the shortcomings of MS Word >>> >>> Once we were done with Christmas morning, my son and his family took off >>> for other Christmas venues and I spent most of the day downloading MiKTeX >>> (an editor for LateX) and reading documentatino. Finding the documentation >>> was a bit of a chore and I'm not satisfied yet that I have everything I'll >>> need, but the web eventually yielded up manuals whose titles, at least, >>> claim they're about LaTeX, LaTeX2e, TeXWorks and MikTeX. I have a lot of >>> reading yet to do. >>> >>> This morning I emailed the Word document to myself and tried saving it as >>> PDF. Turns out Word is awful at that too. It skipped over most of the ToC >>> and jumped from there straight to the beginning of the second chapter, >>> omitting the Intro. I probably won't bother to see what else is wrong with >>> it. >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 18:38:09 +0100 >>> From: Peter Sylvester <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages - more on the shortcomings of MS Word >>> >>>>> On 26/12/2022 17:54, Charles Mills wrote: >>>> I have avoided replying on this thread. It is not my job to shill for >>>> Microsoft on a mainframe forum. >>>> >>>> However, just to get the facts on the record, let me say that I have been >>>> composing very complex manuals with included text and generated TODs and >>>> indexes in MS-Word for years, and publishing them as PDFs, with 100% >>>> success. >>>> >>>> Charles >>>> >>>> >>> We seem to share a similar experience. :-) >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 13:52:08 -0600 >>> From: Paul Gilmartin <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages - more on the shortcomings of MS Word >>> >>>>> On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 09:52:16 -0500, Bob Bridges wrote: >>>> ... >>>> This morning I emailed the Word document to myself and tried saving it as >>>> PDF. Turns out Word is awful at that too. It skipped over most of the ToC >>>> and jumped from there straight to the beginning of the second chapter, >>>> omitting the Intro. I probably won't bother to see what else is wrong >>>> with it. >>>> >>> Seems more like a problem with mail than with Word. Did you bother to see >>> that the file you received was identical to the file you mailed? >>> >>> -- >>> gil >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 21:13:21 +0100 >>> From: Peter Sylvester <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages - more on the shortcomings of MS Word >>> >>>> On 26/12/2022 20:52, Paul Gilmartin wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 09:52:16 -0500, Bob Bridges wrote: >>>>> ... >>>>> This morning I emailed the Word document to myself and tried saving it as >>>>> PDF. Turns out Word is awful at that too. It skipped over most of the >>>>> ToC >>>>> and jumped from there straight to the beginning of the second chapter, >>>>> omitting the Intro. I probably won't bother to see what else is wrong >>>>> with it. >>>>> >>>> Seems more like a problem with mail than with Word. Did you bother to see >>>> that the file you received was identical to the file you mailed? >>>> >>> File not saved before email? >>> >>> table of contents was not updated before save? >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 17:44:14 -0500 >>> From: Bob Bridges <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages - more on the shortcomings of MS Word >>> >>> In fact I did not. Good point. It happens I'm still logged on at the >>> client cite; let's try it there... >>> >>> Nope, same problem. Nevertheless I was hasty to blame Word; it's very >>> possible I just didn't set it up correctly in the .docx format. I know >>> better than to manually set formatting and believe it's the same as >>> defining and using styles, but there may even so be mistakes in my work. >>> >>> Still, though; if I'm going to make that kind of mistake in Word, I think >>> I'm better off using a markup language instead. >>> >>> --- >>> Bob Bridges, [email protected], cell 336 382-7313 >>> >>> /* ...the director and the writers keep changing the script. The actors >>> will do a scene, and the director will say, "OK, that was perfect, but this >>> time, Bob, instead of saying 'What's for dinner?' you say, 'Wait a minute! >>> Benzene is actually a hydrocarbon!' And say it with a Norwegian accent. >>> Also, we think maybe your character should have no arms." -Dave Barry, >>> describing his acting debut in "Dave's World" */ >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of >>> Paul Gilmartin >>> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2022 14:52 >>> >>> Seems more like a problem with mail than with Word. Did you bother to see >>> that the file you received was identical to the file you mailed? >>> >>>>> --- On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 09:52:16 -0500, Bob Bridges wrote: >>>> This morning I emailed the Word document to myself and tried saving it >>>> as PDF. Turns out Word is awful at that too. It skipped over most of >>>> the ToC and jumped from there straight to the beginning of the second >>>> chapter, omitting the Intro. I probably won't bother to see what else is >>>> wrong with it. >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2022 10:17:13 +0800 >>> From: David Crayford <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages - more on the shortcomings of MS Word >>> >>> MS Word is a great product for it's main use case. I don't consider it a >>> good choice for technical documentation and neither does the Information >>> Developer in my team. There are many better tools out there, some of >>> which are free. Documentation in today's world can be published in many >>> different formats. Text documents, HTML, PDF etc. Documentation should >>> be considered code, which is why markdown is so popular. Documentation >>> should go through the same development pipeline as source code with a >>> pull request and a code review before being committed to a SCM and >>> rendered into product artifacts. MS Word is useless for team >>> collaboration. It's ok for a one person team but doesn't scale. >>> >>> My team uses https://vuejs.org/. At the moment we only build HTML but >>> there are packages to render a multitidue of different formats including >>> PDF, word docs etc. Extensions are written in Typescript or Javascript >>> so there is a massive eco-system to pull from. >>> >>>>> On 27/12/22 00:54, Charles Mills wrote: >>>> I have avoided replying on this thread. It is not my job to shill for >>>> Microsoft on a mainframe forum. >>>> >>>> However, just to get the facts on the record, let me say that I have been >>>> composing very complex manuals with included text and generated TODs and >>>> indexes in MS-Word for years, and publishing them as PDFs, with 100% >>>> success. >>>> >>>> Charles >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] On >>>> Behalf Of Bob Bridges >>>> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2022 6:52 AM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: Markup languages - more on the shortcomings of MS Word >>>> >>>> Once we were done with Christmas morning, my son and his family took off >>>> for other Christmas venues and I spent most of the day downloading MiKTeX >>>> (an editor for LateX) and reading documentatino. Finding the >>>> documentation was a bit of a chore and I'm not satisfied yet that I have >>>> everything I'll need, but the web eventually yielded up manuals whose >>>> titles, at least, claim they're about LaTeX, LaTeX2e, TeXWorks and MikTeX. >>>> I have a lot of reading yet to do. >>>> >>>> This morning I emailed the Word document to myself and tried saving it as >>>> PDF. Turns out Word is awful at that too. It skipped over most of the >>>> ToC and jumped from there straight to the beginning of the second chapter, >>>> omitting the Intro. I probably won't bother to see what else is wrong >>>> with it. >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 18:43:33 -0800 >>> From: Ed Jaffe <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages - more on the shortcomings of MS Word >>> >>>>> On 12/26/2022 6:17 PM, David Crayford wrote: >>>> >>>> My team uses https://vuejs.org/. At the moment we only build HTML but >>>> there are packages to render a multitidue of different formats >>>> including PDF, word docs etc. Extensions are written in Typescript or >>>> Javascript so there is a massive eco-system to pull from. >>> >>> >>> For many years we used MS Word for our product documentation, but it was >>> just too buggy and cumbersome. >>> >>> Our team now uses MadCap Flare. It's a "best of breed" solution >>> specifically designed for technical documentation. >>> >>> https://www.madcapsoftware.com/products/flare/ >>> >>> We use it to deliver our documentation in three formats: Adobe PDF, >>> HTML, and Eclipse plug-ins that can be used with IBM InfoCenter and >>> KnowledgeCenter (including KC4Z on z/OS). >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Phoenix Software International >>> Edward E. Jaffe >>> 831 Parkview Drive North >>> El Segundo, CA 90245 >>> https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the >>> information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended >>> recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise >>> received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution, >>> review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information >>> contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended >>> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies >>> of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email >>> message or any or all of the information contained therein. Although this >>> email message and any attachments or appended messages are believed to be >>> free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into >>> which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient >>> to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the >>> sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its opening or use. >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2022 12:35:48 +0800 >>> From: David Crayford <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Markup languages - more on the shortcomings of MS Word >>> >>> On 27/12/22 10:43, Ed Jaffe wrote: >>>>> My team uses https://vuejs.org/. At the moment we only build HTML but >>>>> there are packages to render a multitidue of different formats >>>>> including PDF, word docs etc. Extensions are written in Typescript or >>>>> Javascript so there is a massive eco-system to pull from. >>>> >>>> >>>> For many years we used MS Word for our product documentation, but it >>>> was just too buggy and cumbersome. >>>> >>>> Our team now uses MadCap Flare. It's a "best of breed" solution >>>> specifically designed for technical documentation. >>>> >>>> https://www.madcapsoftware.com/products/flare/ >>>> >>>> We use it to deliver our documentation in three formats: Adobe PDF, >>>> HTML, and Eclipse plug-ins that can be used with IBM InfoCenter and >>>> KnowledgeCenter (including KC4Z on z/OS) >>> >>> Looks great! It supports DITA which we use for our IBM marketed products >>> that get published on KC. I like that it has extensive build automation >>> including a CLI so integrating into a DevOps pipeline using Jenkins or >>> other build automation is simple. >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> End of IBM-MAIN Digest - 25 Dec 2022 to 26 Dec 2022 (#2022-355) >>> *************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
