On Sun, 2021-03-07 at 18:30 +0100, 'Kay F. Jahnke' via hugin and other free panoramic software wrote: > Am 07.03.21 um 14:16 schrieb yuv: > > On Sun, 2021-03-07 at 09:22 +0000, Bruno Postle wrote: > > > currently there is a single person doing code maintenance, > > > collecting translations, _and_ doing the releases - these could > > > easily be different roles. > > > > This! What made Hugin great and successful in years past was > > [SNIPPED MY OWN DESCRIPTION OF A TEAM] > > I felt it was difficult to keep my foot in the door. Sort of > disheartened. Like, I got stern admonishments rather than friendly > encouragement.
Sorry for the bad experience. My memory is fading, but I remember trying to welcome you best as I could. If I did not, please accept my belated apology. > I prefer to run 'my own show' now, where I don't step on > anyone's toes. Could it be that the current maintainer also prefers to run 'his own show?' > I'm not sure if there is the will to rebuild stuff, much less > sacrifice anything. Then there is nothing I can help with. With all due respect, I draw your attention to the similarities between pv and Hugin. Replace 'rebuild stuff' with 'build team.' pv and Hugin are at two different life-stages, but prevented from reaching the next level by two dominant personalities who, for different reasons, are not willing to make compromises and prefer running 'their own shows.' Just acknowledging this is a major step forward, but it is not enough. The personality has to be willing to sacrifice something. Then we can speak about wasteful vs purposeful sacrifice. > I have tried to help keep my python interface afloat [...] Comments are at a technical level. Need to fix the team level first. Going technical here is diverting from the problem that asks for a fix. > Look at the hugin website: 'hugin is now stable'. anyone believing any software stable or mature are not looking enough into the future, or they are just making the statement for marketing purposes. Drinking that statement's Koolaid is fatal. 'stability' is an illusion. particularly in tech. > there have been great innovations in the past few years indeed. the question is whether the community is nurturing these innovations. the alternative is to let the proprietary model innovate faster and better. the end-user does not care. the end-user will get the most affordable functionality to them at the lowest available price. > > Who wants to join a dwindling team who does not welcome change? > > Good question. Declaring a project stable is another way to say it does not welcome change. > I'd still like to see hugin move [from Sourceforge]. You'll have to discuss that with the current maintainer. Same for the adoption of git instead of Mercurial. These are operational level comments, and like your technical level comments I snipped earlier, are a distraction from the real issue here: governance. 'run my own show.' The current maintainer got permission to run his own show because the rest of the team, including me, bailed out and implicitly supported the show as it was. I cannot speak for the former team- mates, but I have no wish to 'come back' and confront a 'run my own show' maintainer only to add a different 'run my own show' maintainer. I actually have no time to 'come back' at all. I am just saddened by the fact that what I left behind has rotten. If I was still active in the project, I would extend you admin access. Oh, but wait, you are the one who does not want a SourceForge account? I did not like SourceForge either. But I did get the account, and I did work within the team to move the bug tracker to Launchpad and to achieve consensus on replacing Subversion. I did not get to 'run my show' on Subversion, else we'd be in git. I accepted that back then git was an inferior experience for those on the team that were on Windows, and compromised. > Gosh, I did not even see that [F*Book]. Yeah, posting to hugin-ptx > has not been rewarding for me recently. The world is changing under the corrupting influence of the fake news business. However, if posting to a mailing list or publishing software under a license that encourages distribution and multiplication is done for the purpose of reward, I strongly encourage self-reflection if not therapy. Give without expectations, or don't give, for you will be eaten alive. > Since you're playing devil's advocate (hah) - I can wrap all > panotools transformations in vspline please, do! be an inspiration. this is still technical, and does not address the governance issues that ultimately lead to the demise of the community. you may try to create a new community around pv (look, you got already some traction!) but the limit will be the 'run my own show' and not operational or technical. > with pv, I like to 'move fast and break things'. > Come for the ride! just reading the past few exchanges, if you had granted Kornel and Harry write privilege to pv's repository, it would have moved faster. one of them could have even released, saving your brain cycles for the inspirational level tech. not sure about the breaking, but that is what makes the ride interesting. The best is when you grant privilege and promotes those that are faster and better than you. Which is what happened with Hugin. The worst is when it turns that thouse who are faster and better than you neglect the other passengers in the train. All of a sudden, they find themselves alone in the locomotive 'running their own show' while the wagon behind have disconnected, one after another, and gone to other tracks. I like what I see happening with pv. Up to you to decide if you are strong enough to water down some of the 'run my own show' in exchange for 'running together.' A similar reflection will come sooner or later on the Hugin side. All I can hope is that both will reach that reflection point in useful time, and a community can be once again energized to team up. I am happy to facilitate team building, but I will not be prodding reluctant non-participants that 'run their own show.' -- Yuval Levy, JD, MBA, CFA Ontario-licensed lawyer -- A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hugin-ptx/152d1da37fb618733d361bcd88a4ba780c849662.camel%40levy.ch.
