I see it much simpler. We're moving to Stride because that's how HipChat evolved.
On Tue, 22 May 2018, 09:34 Yoann Rodiere, <yo...@hibernate.org> wrote: > I think the problem here is about how we're choosing to migrate to another > tool. We are basically moving to Stride because Atlassian is being > uncooperative with updating HipChat, even though Stride is still not fully > functional. > Atlassian made HipChat, and we're not happy with HipChat. Atlassian made > Stride too, so let's not trust them blindly? Sure, we can always move to > another platform after moving to Stride, but it'll be a waste of time for > everyone. Let's see what our options really are, first! > > I don't think we have many needs, and frankly I don't care which tool we'll > be using. I'd rather it be open source, but I'll just use whatever we pick > in the end, as long as I can write messages and receive messages. But I > want people to be on this platform: both the team, and ideally community > members. So let's just make sure everyone is at least comfortable with our > choice. > Sure some features are not useful to everybody, but in the end it's a > matter of taste and personal workflow, and we can't argue about that > without enforcing a standardized workflow. I think it would be more useful > to just list what we want, then see which platforms fit best, then pick > one, compromising as needed. > > I started a document to compare various solutions, feel free to add > anything you think is relevant: > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oiI_SO4O5OwTx7Fd8_lvhOvVcIIYLbnSY1MAqemz-JI/edit?usp=sharing > > ... But I think the one criteria that will make us pick Stride is free > hosting. Most other platforms either do not have a free plan, or do not > provide all of their features to free plan users. Zulip apparently removes > OAuth authentication in its free plan, for instance. The Infinispan team > has OAuth authentication enabled though... Do they pay for their Zulip > instance? > > Of course if we could host it ourselves it would be another story, but I > doubt anyone wants to add that to the list of tools we currently maintain. > > > On Mon, 21 May 2018 at 14:02 Guillaume Smet <guillaume.s...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:37 PM, Steve Ebersole <st...@hibernate.org> > > wrote: > > > > > You can't "do your job" without yet another way to get notified of CI > job > > > status? I'm confused - did Jenkins remove all of its other forms of > > > notification? ;) Seriously though, I've never understood this desire > > to > > > have yet another communications "inbox" spammed by automated > > notifications > > > - and its even worse in Hip Cat because I can never hide them. So it > is > > > hard for me to incorporate this into the argument against moving. > > > > > > > Typically, for the websites builds, I like to have the notifications on > > HipChat. Not vital but it's something I appreciate. > > > > > > > Y'all really wanted to move to Hip Chat in the first place even though > to > > > me it always felt (and feels) half-baked itself. > > > > > > > I wasn't part of the team at that point. > > > > > > > And if the web client is as good as the native client, I assume you use > > > the web client instead? > > > > > > > Yes. I have a pinned tab for it. Desktop notifications from the browser > are > > well integrated now. > > > > > > > So to me it really comes down to what are the blockers to not making > this > > > move now. So far I hear: > > > > > > 1. No Jenkins notifications - see above > > > 2. Guest access - meh - If having to have an account to join the > > > discussion is bad then we should immediately make our forums > > > guest-accessible again as well ;) > > > > > > As mentioned in my email, I don't mind not having guest access if we > have > > some sort of external auth integration (Github/Twitter/Google). This way, > > it avoids creating yet another account. That's what we have on our new > > forums. > > > > Maybe Stride has it, I don't know, but I would like our next chat system > to > > have that. > > > > I took a look at several accounts we have on our forums and most of them > > are from GitHub or Google (I took seven randomly and 1 had an account > > specific to our forums - no better statistics sorry). > > > > > > > > 1. There may be better options out there - at some point can we just > > > pick one and use it? Is one "inbox" really that much better than > > another > > > "inbox"? And clearly I am not even tied to Hip Chat - I was one of > > the > > > people wanting to not move there. Radim, what makes Zulip so > amazing? > > > 2. "Coordination tool"? Not really sure what this one is about. Is > > > this back to Jenkins notifications? If you mean a communications > > tool, of > > > course it works. They are largely the same. Andrea, Sanne and I > have > > > played with it, so we in fact do have some idea if it will (spoiler: > > it > > > does) > > > 3. We should go where WildFly goes (?). > > > > > > My main point is that we have no idea if Stride is stable at the > moment. > > They definitely don't want to massively migrate the HipChat users and I > > found at least one comment of a person who has migrated there and is not > > happy at all (not saying it makes all the migrated users unhappy, just > > saying that it might be a bad move if we do it now). > > > > So again, what problem are we trying to solve by migrating to Stride > while > > it's still a work in progress? Because you reversed the question but it > is > > the correct question. > > > > - If it is the client issue, is the Stride client better integrated? And > is > > it enough to trigger the migration? > > - If it's the access difficulty, does Stride allow external > > authentications? Because that's what external users want. > > - If it's the "it's a pain to be logged in to multiple instances", are we > > all moving to Stride and will it solve the issue - meaning is it easier > to > > be connected to multiple instances? > > - Other issues I'm not aware of? > > > > When you want to migrate to something new, you ponder the risks with the > > benefits. For now, noone has stated any clear benefit, apart from "it's > > new" and "HipChat has issues but we don't know if they will be solved by > > Stride". > > > > Note that my position is not "we should stay on HipChat forever" because > we > > can't as they will close the service at some point. My position is: > > - I'm not sure the risk of moving to a half-baked system is worth it if > > there are no clear benefits (I would wait a bit) > > - is Stride gonna solve our issues or do we need to move to another > system? > > (because if it's the case, let's avoid the Stride square). > > > > -- > > Guillaume > > _______________________________________________ > > hibernate-dev mailing list > > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > > -- > Yoann Rodiere > yo...@hibernate.org / yrodi...@redhat.com > Software Engineer > Hibernate NoORM team > _______________________________________________ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
