Re: HTML node names: Not emitting 'Top (Manual name)'</span></a></span> </h1> <p class="darkgray font13"> <span class="sender pipe"><a href="/search?l=help-texinfo@gnu.org&q=from:%22Arsen+Arsenovi%C4%87%22" rel="nofollow"><span itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop="name">Arsen Arsenović</span></span></a></span> <span class="date"><a href="/search?l=help-texinfo@gnu.org&q=date:20240317" rel="nofollow">Sun, 17 Mar 2024 05:43:16 -0700</a></span> </p> </div> <div itemprop="articleBody" class="msgBody"> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <pre>Hi, [this wide-reply fail has happened again.. apologies. my MUA keymaps need fixing]</pre><pre> Gavin Smith <gavinsmith0...@gmail.com> writes: > On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 09:42:28AM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > What we envisionned, instead, was to provide with the HTML customization >> > API to do the kind of modifications you want to do. I can imagine a >> > number of reasons why this solution is not that attractive for your use >> > case, for instance it does not allow to be compatible with a wide range >> > of makeinfo releases, may not be that stable, is in Perl, and could >> > require important work. Still, maybe you could consider using that >> > possibility in the future if you face incompatible changes again. >> >> I think the main reason this solution is not used is that it is still >> a kind of "black magic" for almost everyone, definitely for me >> personally. The relevant sections of the Texinfo manual are basically >> a very terse man-page style reference of options in alphabetical >> order, without any kind of tutorial or general explanations or >> examples (without which it is hard to even understand some of the >> customization variables unless one is an HTML expert). This is very >> unlike the other sections of the manual, which invariably provide >> detailed background explanations for each group of commands, describe >> the recommended practices, and provide a lot of examples. I write >> Texinfo manuals for 20 years, and still consult the Texinfo manual all >> the time, always finding valuable information in it in the sections >> that describe the Texinfo language and how to use them in a >> well-written manual. >> >> With better documentation, it is quite possible that we could consider >> switching most, if not all, of the code in admin.el to using the >> texi2any customization capabilities -- provided again that those >> customization variables can be relied upon to be stable enough, >> without fearing they will be completely redesigned at some future >> time. > > It is probably better to use customization with options and variables > ("data driven") than customization based on writing code that hooks into the > internals ("code driven"), if the former is possible to achieve. This > is simpler and easier to understand. > > For example, I looked at the mentioned code at > <a rel="nofollow" href="https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/admin/admin.el">https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/admin/admin.el</a> > (the manual-html-fix-* functions) and it is not instantly apparent what > all of the code is supposed to achieve. > > Hence, it would be better to try to understand what the Emacs distribution > code is doing to the HTML output and if customization variables and/or > the default output could support this. > > The code driven customization is more coupled to internals that > could change, although in theory is more powerful. A form of "semi" data driven customization that we don't currently utilize is templating engines. We could have templates for various elements that other templates then use recursively etc. Jinja2 is a nice (but Python, not Perl) example of a templating engine, if you'd like to get a feel for how such a template looks, and I believe Asciidoctor also uses this approach. This'd give users a relatively simple and intuitive way to tweak some bits of HTML (given that templates tend to be HTML interspersed with custom tags or a language isomorphic to HTML), while providing something perhaps not too difficult to keep stable for Texinfo maintainers. -- Arsen Arsenović </pre> <p><strong><a href="msg03263/signature.asc" ><img src="../attachment.png" alt="Attachment:" width=27 height=28></a> <a href="msg03263/signature.asc" >signature.asc</a></strong><br> <em>Description:</em> PGP signature</p> </div> <div class="msgButtons margintopdouble"> <ul class="overflow"> <li class="msgButtonItems"><a class="button buttonleft " accesskey="p" href="msg03269.html">Previous message</a></li> <li class="msgButtonItems textaligncenter"><a class="button" accesskey="c" href="index.html#03263">View by thread</a></li> <li class="msgButtonItems textaligncenter"><a class="button" accesskey="i" href="maillist.html#03263">View by date</a></li> <li class="msgButtonItems 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