On Wed, Jul 29, 2026 at 10:04 AM Gabriel Wicki <[email protected]> wrote:

> I can as well just comment on this highly questionable input instead of
> replying (and having to repeat myself) to my inbox full of remarks since
> yesterday.  That being said: I doubt polemics, assumptions of my
> positions, exaggerations and dramatizations of the current situations
> are helpful or align with the GNU Kind Communication Guidelines.  Maybe
> we should all glance over that highly helpful document once more?
>
> I thank you for trying to understand me in advance!
>
>
> # ON WALLS OF TEXTS, POLEMICS AND ISSUES WITH DISSIDENT OPINIONS #
>
> You can all present yourself as the most consent-conscious people
> around, but if you
>
>  - refuse to name the problem(s) you want to solve,
>
>  - do not explore the problem space for all possible solutions,
>
>  - glorify an obviously deficient process,
>
>  - sprinkled with polemics when people voicing dissent
>
> you are but acting on a brutalized idea of the oh-so-often-cited
> consensus finding process you claim to follow.  It is just not the real
> deal if you omit the most essential half(!).
>
>
> # THE ISSUES WITH GCD008 #
>
> The major issue I see with GCD008 is that it tried to solve at least the
> following (5!) issues, all at once:
>
>  1. saving the project from dependency on proprietary SaaS,
>
>  2. saving the source code repositories from infections from
>  contributions of questionable provenance (wrt copyright),
>
>  3. glorifying craftspersonship,
>
>  4. telling the world that we have strong political stances,
>
>  5. limiting usage of proprietary tools for hacking on or contributing
>  to Guix
>
> and probably a bunch more.  Time pressure was given by definition of the
> GCD process (prolonging of the discussion phase being out of the
> question), while the need for action was repeated as if it was an axiom.
>
>
> The first two and IMHO most important points in my eyes **do not need
> sudden action**.  The former is clearly regulated by the FSDG.  The
> latter is, if not through the FSDG or another document I may not think
> of right now, regulated due to a piece of arcane knowledge, which we act
> upon in our day-to-day duties as committers, but I guess we just never
> wrote down, though we really should.
>
> Who volunteers to draft a rough sketch?
>
>
> # RISK ASSESSMENT #
>
> That being said: not a single person argued in favor of risking to lose
> Guix.  Have you noticed that?  AFAICT We have a very strong consensus
> that we should not risk losing this great project or getting into legal
> troubles.  So, the adequate thing to do is: assess potential risk,
> consult experts, then draft and consent on (LLM assisted) contribution
> guidelines (or which other measure seems adequate) that seem sensible
> and ensure a sustainable collaboration with the partnerships we
> currently have and the ecosystem we thrive in.  This is what I mean by
> exploring the problem space.  It is *far more* than just exchanging
> opinions, figuring out where the median lies, only to label it
> "consensus" in the end and being fine with it.
>
> GCD008 potentially contradicts the just released Codeberg guidelines.
> Are we ready to hop to the next host?  I very much doubt that.
>
> Had we known about these discussions (and the outcome) I may not have
> been the only one disapproving.  So, I guess we need "ambassadors" of a
> kind to guarantee at least a minimal, bidirectional flow of information
> for relevant discussions in our dependent/related/neighboring projects.
> Who volunteers?
>
>
> # REGULATING PERSONAL COMPUTER USAGE #
>
> It is true, we currently do not have a policy on LLM usage.  But
> regulating the personal computing usage of our contributors and project
> members is against the GNU Kind Communications Guidelines and IMO
> Freedom 0.  Do we overthrow these pillars of our community for a
> "strong, political stance" against BigCorp?  Or do we just expect people
> to remain silent about their computing setups because they are not as
> cool as the very verbal HACKERPERSON™ majority?  I am convinced this is
> not inviting for newcomers and just hides the fact that we are all far
> from perfect.  Such cultish attitudes contradict egalitarian,
> collective, consent-driven movement essentially.
>
>
> # PLEASE STOP WASTING RESOURCES #
>
> GCD008 should have been withdrawn even before it was started.  It was
> obvious from the volume and emotional load in the precursory discussion
> that we were *FAR* from being able to collectively rationalize on *what
> we were doing* and how to get to ideal solutions.
>
> I don't understand why we had to continue for 3 months repeating that we
> /must regulate asap/ and that we are endangered if we did not.  I
> believe that having our principal developer expose themselves to this
> daunting and rather ungrateful task instead of maybe holding a wider
> view of project milestones, looking out for (other) grave deficiencies
> or enabling others to fill in many of their (former) positions and
> duties by writing down all these missing pieces of arcane knowledge,
> thus enabling others to take up the necessary work, is a problem we
> better not repeat.  This only hurts our project.
>
> I hope we learn and use this lesson in the future.
>
>
>
> I urge you, Dave, and all who seemingly feel such a drastic need to
> police, to at least define the terms you want to regulate, describe the
> problems you ought to solve, open the space and invite people, consult
> experts (or at least lawyers) to find these `win-win` solutions we need
> instead of repeatedly exchange insurmountable walls of text only to land
> on a perceived median of opinions just so the "consent" label can be
> slapped onto it.  But I am already (and again) repeating myself.
>
> Please excuse, I am sorry.
>
>
> # WHAT IS THIS EVEN ABOUT?!?!? #
>
> I honestly don't even know what we are fighting over.  Is it me who has
> issues with the process you guys blindly glorify?  Or is it you having
> issues with me taking part in this very process (but just having the
> *wrong* opinion)?  Are we saving Guix from BigCorp?  Or from a rabies
> infected GNU?
>
> I am convinced we have an extremely broad consensus about all that LLM
> jazz.  We don't want to take risks for the project, we can't rely on
> proprietary software for our infrastructure, we can't advocate for such
> things, etc.
>
>
> Please, y'all, take the time to let this settle a bit, focus on what
> *actually needs to be done* so this remains a project where we all
> thrive and empower each other, figure out ways so we can actually find
> consensus on these issues instead of this infighting.  I hope you all
> realize we are on the same team, fighting the same struggle in and for
> the same project, having the same ideals and usually coming to very
> similar conclusions.
>
> Let's not have unproven and unfit processes getting in our way to
> thrive!
>
>
> I hope you are all doing fine and wish you all a splendid week!
> gabriel / gabber
>

Can we keep this discussion focused on the content of the GCD 009 document?

Thanks,

- Dave

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