This thread hasn't been going anywhere productive for a while. Posts are getting longer, and carry increasing amounts of heavily stretched assertions and what feel like attacks on the integrity and good faith of those involved. I think Gerv has an action to follow up on issues with the Pocket TOS, Other than that it's mostly opinion and differing interpretations of the Manifesto, so we're not going to get anywhere.
That said, I _really_ don't like character attacks, so I'm going to address some of those below. On 6 July 2015 at 19:34, B Galliart <bgal...@gmail.com> wrote: > > (1) Mike Connor's post in this thread on June 17th makes it clear the > Mozilla Foundation's "master goal" puts Mozilla Manifesto Principle #9 as > the only priority and throws out the rest. > This is a willful and absurd misreading of my statements. My statement is that we don't have an obligation to build an open version of every service on the internet. And that partnering with commercial interests is something to be balanced against openness, but explicitly not forbidden. If you know my history with the project, I hope you can understand where this sort of rhetoric and characterization is actually deeply offensive. > (2) Mike Connor's statements seem to be backed by Justin Dolske's actions > of marking the issue related to OSD compliance as hidden due to "advocacy" > and then close the integration process as completed. This would seem to > violate Mozilla Manifesto #7 and Manifesto #8 if those still mattered. > I'm not sure where OSD compliance came into the picture. To the best of my knowledge, the OSD has never been viewed as an obligation. (The first time I had this argument was in 2005 or so, if we've made public statements to the contrary I must have missed them.) We believe openness and transparency win, but we've always balanced that against pragmatism. On the specific issue of #6, and what I assume is your concern around the TOS, I'm reasonably certain that "personal, non-commercial use" doesn't quite mean what you think it means, and is meant to exclude commercial services from using Pocket as the backend for their own products. I'll let Gerv track that with the legal folks, as it'd be absurd to ship a feature that can't be used inside of a commercial environment. OSD or not, that'd simply be a terrible idea. However, if there is now Mozilla Foundation employees that have framed > principle #9 in gold and have the rest printed on toilet paper much like > Mike Connor and Justin Dolske seem to, then I think we will be stuck taking > two steps back for every step forward. Even then, I would not go as far as > to say the Mozilla Foundation or Firefox mean nothing, they just will mean > something very different than what the Mozilla Manifesto says. I'm not going to reply to this type of baseless attack directly, except to say that making personal attacks against my integrity is a _really_ bad way to change my mind, and detracts from your legitimate concerns. If you actually want to help, I'd recommend starting by reassessing your tendency to assume bad faith. As I've explained recently to a friend and Mozillian, it's one of the most toxic things you can do if you want to be a force for good. Your heart seems to be in the right place, but your words are not. -- Mike _______________________________________________ governance mailing list governance@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance
