Many amateur uses also Java and Python. Writing JSP pages are not more complicated than writing PHP pages. I think not PHP should be the "IQ filter" :), the "entry level IQ test" is using AppEngine itself, deal with the restrictions, optimize your code for it, etc. This is why Quercus would be a working alternative. The "amateur" PHP developers will drop AppEngine in the first time when they cannot use their favorite PHP framework on it, and they will find a free PHP hosting provider (you can find many). In along term only the professional PHP developers will stay on AppEngine, who are running their own frameworks, or who can extend the PHP with their own Java libraries (if AppEngine supports the Quercus way).
On jún. 23, 10:22, Jeff Schnitzer <[email protected]> wrote: > ...not to mention the fact that PHP tends to attract, well, let's generously > call them "amateurs". Read Facebook's forums sometime if you want to see > what I mean. It would be the end of this mailing list. > > There's also an economic argument against PHP. Google offers a free tier so > that you can start out small and grow big. If you don't grow big then > Google looses money on you. Millions of kiddies running their 3-user PHP > forums could clog the system. Java, Python, Ruby, & friends attract a more > serious audience, if only because there is less "canned" software out there. > > Jeff > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 12:23 AM, Brandon Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote: > > Point Blank I will say what Google won’t. A non-standard (doesn’t let you > > install libraries doesn’t include MySQL) PHP implementation will be an > > absolute B___ to support. Every WordPress Plugin that doesn’t work will > > have 9B people complaining. Why isn’t PHSpell not there? Why is Zen > > Framework not there? Why is EZSQL not there? Why doesn’t FOPEN work for > > URLs? Why doesn’t FWrite work on this file system? **** > > > ** ** > > > -Brandon**** > > > ** ** > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *David Mora > > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2011 11:15 PM > > *To:* [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: [google-appengine] Re: #appengine irc chat transcript > > 2011-06-15**** > > > ** ** > > > Resource-wise is really expensive to do single-threaded solutions, thats > > the major problem.**** > > > ** ** > > > It is always possible, i don't see any reasons why you would not be able to > > run a full PHP environment on GAE since is not that far from what python > > requires - at the end you pick GAE as your platform for what it is (Their > > best practices, APIs, expertise ... - even the downtimes, heh - you know the > > drill of a PaaS) but the question comes down to the fact that at this point > > is not feasible and comparable in terms of resource consumption with pyton > > 2.7 and java and the cost to maintain it.**** > > > ** ** > > > The performance upgrade you get from running hiphop (compiled version of > > PHP) is great - but still, if you notice GAE's pricing change they are built > > around instances consumption and you would want to get the most of every > > single instance you have available (multi-threading it for example)**** > > > ** ** > > > I don't see either on the PHP roadmap bringing multi-threading to the table > > (maybe due to the fact of it's nature and the reason why it was > > created/evolved) so this is something that you would have to look really > > down in the layer and pretty much fork the project to change it (this is > > when the cost of maintain it comes)**** > > > ** ** > > > 2011/6/22 László Fazekas <[email protected]>**** > > > Why the threading issue is a problem? You can run PHP in CGI mode in > > single thread, or translate it to native code by hiphop > > (https://github.com/facebook/hiphop-php/) to prevent the PHP engine > > initialization overhead, and run the generated code on AppEngine (like > > you run a Go generated native code). I don't know the deeper AppEngine > > architecture, but it songs possible.**** > > > On jún. 23, 05:30, "Ikai Lan (Google)" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > The threading issue is a really good point about why a native PHP runtime > > > won't work on App Engine. If you read the PHP discussion, you'll see why > > PHP > > > developers do not want to use Quercus - perhaps you can convince them > > > otherwise? > > > > One last note: there is no more distinction between "App Engine" and "App > > > Engine for Business" due to the pricing changes. Our plan is to release > > > features that were originally intended for GAE4B only to be paid add-ons. > > > > Ikai Lan > > > Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine > > > Blog:http://googleappengine.blogspot.com > > > Twitter:http://twitter.com/app_engine > > > Reddit:http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine > > > >**** > > > > On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:06 PM, László Fazekas <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > Partly true, partly not. Usage of ORM in PHP not common as in Java, but > > > > most of the PHP based system has a an abstraction layer upon the > > database, > > > > and if you change it, you can use your existing system on GAE. For > > example > > > > you can run Wordpress on AppEngine with Quercus with a relatively small > > pain**** > > > > > (seehttp://wordpress-on-quercus.appspot.com/wordpress-2.7.1/).**** > > > > > If you develop a new application, you can use ORM which hides the real > > > > database implementation. For example LWorm ( > > > >http://code.google.com/p/lworm/) is really small and easy to use > > > > abstraction tool. If you use it, you can use your application in a > > standard > > > > LAMP environment with MySQL, or on AppEngine with Quercus without any > > pain. > > > > > Thirdly, it is possible to use memory mapped SQL databases (like > > HSQLDB) as > > > > a storage. In this case the db is stored in datastore as a blob. Not so > > > > efficient, but it can work with small databases. Bu, as I know, Google > > plans > > > > to support SQL on AppEngine (maybe only in the AppEngine for Business). > > > > > So, I think PHP on AppEngine is not an impossible or meaningless thing, > > and > > > > not wronger than Python on AppEngine. Quercus is existing thing, you > > can run > > > > PHP on AppEngine with it. It is GPL-ed. So, I think, the only think > > what > > > > Google should do is officially support it on AppEngine. Maybe it would > > be > > > > enough to change the sdk, and create a build script which makes a war > > which > > > > includes Quercus and the PHP code. It doesn't songs too difficult, so I > > > > don't understand why not supported PHP on AppEngine. (PHP support is > > one of > > > > the most needed feature on the issues list.) > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > > "Google App Engine" group. > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/nvnn6N7lcfMJ. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > . > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > [email protected]. > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Google App Engine" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.**** > > > -- > >http://about.me/david.mora**** > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Google App Engine" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.**** > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Google App Engine" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. 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