Sorry, but I have been away and missed the context. What is the protest about?
What has redit changed? Thanks On Saturday, 24 June 2023 at 06:07:38 UTC+1 Axel Wagner wrote: > On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 3:03 AM cpa...@gmail.com <cpa...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> If 100 people are on a boat and 51 want to sink the boat is that fair to >> the 49 who want to live? > > > This is not a life-or-death situation and such comparisons are almost > universally unhelpful, as you literally do not have a choice in them. > > You’re taking a resource away from others. >> >> If someone wants to protest Walmart they don’t burn it down. >> > > No one is burning down anything. But, again, protest has to be > inconvenient. And contrary to the claims made by you and Jan, yes, it is > actually completely normal (and legal, in most legislatures) for a protest > to temporarily "take resources away from others". Roads get closed for > protest marches all the time. > > But really, what I miss most here is an argument about the actual subject > matter. If you are frustrated about the subreddit being closed, you can > direct that frustration at the moderators or you can direct it at Reddit. > If they didn't implement their API changes, the protest would end, after > all. > > You seem to be taking it as a given that the moderators are the > appropriate target of the frustration and that they should be automatically > the one to give in. When Jan asked me - an unrelated party - to refund his > Reddit fee, he could've just as well written to Reddit, telling them that > he wants his money back because their insistence on overcharging for their > API causes this protest and makes reddit less valuable to him. That > would've likely done exactly as much to get his money back. But it would > actually exert pressure on someone who has a hand in this issue - after > all, threatening Reddit's bottom line is what this protest is all about. > And given that his business relationship is with Reddit, that's the only > party he actually has any real leverage with. So I'm really confused that > someone would bend over backwards, logically speaking, to misdirect their > frustration this way. > > If you want to convince me, at least, that the protest is bad, you have to > convince me that the API charges Reddit is implementing are good and > justified and that the moderators are wrong to object to them. You won't > convince me with arguments about the procedure. > > Or to put it another way: In your metaphor, you are assuming that the > moderators protesting are the ones who are trying to sink the boat. I'm not > convinced of that. To me, they make a pretty convincing case that it's > their actions which are trying to keep the boat afloat, by preserving > third-party tools that are essential to reddit's operation and the > voluntary labor of the moderators. And if the owner of a ship directs it to > steer into an iceberg and the crew objects, I'd expect the passengers to > back them in it, instead of complaining that they'll be late and how dare > they obstruct *my* right to have the ship go wherever I want. > > Anyways… as I said, this isn't actually such a dramatic situation. It's > just a website being closed for a bit. And if the mods are open to a vote > on whether or not to participate in the protest, that seems a perfectly > serviceable process to me. People should feel free to vote on that poll > however they like. I just wanted to provide some counterweight to the > initial call to vote against the protest. > > >> >> On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 4:37:20 AM UTC-4 Axel Wagner wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 10:29 AM Jan Mercl <0xj...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 10:18 AM Axel Wagner >>>> <axel.wa...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Just for context, as not everyone seems to be aware: I was, in that >>>> sentence you quoted, referring to examples like this >>>> > >>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14eq8ip/the_entire_rmildlyinteresting_mod_team_has_just/ >>>> > This demonstrates that even with overwhelming support from the >>>> community (and yes, in this example the modifier applies), the company >>>> overwrites those wishes to shut down protest. There are a couple of other >>>> subreddits with similar stories. >>>> > >>>> > So I was making the case to *provide* overwhelming support for the >>>> mods of /r/golang, referring to precedent of other subreddits where that >>>> is >>>> happening. Not claiming that they already have it. >>>> >>>> Thanks for the added conext. >>>> >>>> Anyone not liking Reddit is free to not visit the site. Anyone not >>>> accepting the price for the API access is free to not buy it. It's >>>> fine to vote by your visits and by your wallet. That's how the free >>>> market works and it works well unless there's some monopoly. But >>>> Reddit has no monopoly. >>>> >>>> Protesters are free to protest. That's their respected right. >>>> Protesters have no right to deny access to other users. That's my >>>> right and I expect it to be equally respected. >>>> >>> >>> /r/golang has no monopoly. >>> >>> >>>> PS: I'm paying $7/month to Reddit to have r/golang ad-free. May I ask >>>> you for a refund? Thanks for your consideration. >>>> >>> >>> You may certainly ask *the company you are paying* for a refund. >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "golang-nuts" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to golang-nuts...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/ef228331-2230-4f62-8478-5a186fbbd299n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/ef228331-2230-4f62-8478-5a186fbbd299n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "golang-nuts" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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