One other point on this. Generics will be trivial for 95% of the people - they will only need to be able to read and write the instantiation statements of type safe collections.
Most developers don’t write the generic implementations - these are provided by library authors. As I’ve said before, I would of taken a more go-like approach - generics seem too technical for most go developers - but in the end they will be a net benefit. > On Mar 15, 2021, at 8:28 PM, Robert Engels <reng...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > Very well said. > >>> On Mar 15, 2021, at 7:04 PM, Jeremy French <ibi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> I was really trying not to weigh in here, mostly because it's a decision >> that has been decided, so there's not a lot of point in continuing the >> discussion, and yesterday it seemed like the thread would die, yet... it >> continues. >> >> For context, I was against the generics proposal, primarily because it would >> make *my* life more complicated, while not providing *me* that much benefit. >> I raised the concerns I had, especially in regards to the "if you don't >> like it, don't use it" arguments. I participated in a couple conversations >> on this mailing list. In the end, I was fairly convinced that there were >> others in the community (and the community as a whole) who would benefit >> from the change far more than what it would cost me, and resigned myself to >> the change. >> >> All of that is just to establish my bona fides. If I were inclined to be >> biased on this topic, it would be against the Go team, not in their favor. >> >> And yet, I can say unequivocally that any suggestion that the Go team has >> railroaded this proposal through, or has ignored the concerns of its user >> base, is pure fiction. Every single concern or question I've seen raised >> has been addressed respectfully and at face value - even, I would say - >> several concerns or complaints on this side of the argument that perhaps >> reasonably could have been scoffed at or dismissed as just stupid. They >> have been respectful and attentive at every turn. I don't necessarily agree >> or like the decision they made, but these character assassinations against >> them or implications that they are subject to corruption from their >> corporate parent have no supporting evidence that I've seen, including any >> presented in this thread. >> >> It seems pretty clear that they are passionate about the health and >> longevity of the project, and are in the unenviable position of having to >> make a decision that is guaranteed to make some people angry no matter what >> they decide. But in the end, it is their call to make, and they made it the >> best way they could think of to do so. You can't ask any more than that. >> >>> On Monday, March 15, 2021 at 6:14:36 PM UTC-4 Ian Lance Taylor wrote: >>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 3:11 PM atd...@gmail.com <atd...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > I am in favor of the proposal but I think that accounting for popularity >>> > votes is not a good measure of things. >>> > A lot of people are at various stages of their technical journey in >>> > computer science and engineering and there has to be a weight given to >>> > the more technical opinions that is not reflected in the github >>> > upvote/downvote system. >>> > At one point, everyone would have upvoted that the earth was flat. >>> > >>> > Just a note in passing :) >>> >>> Yes. I am not saying that the proposal was adopted because it had >>> good support. I am arguing against the suggestion that the proposal >>> should not have been adopted because it had a lot of critics. >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> >>> > On Monday, March 15, 2021 at 11:03:50 PM UTC+1 Ian Lance Taylor wrote: >>> >> >>> >> On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 5:08 AM Space A. <reexi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > > For example, the multiple proposals that flowed out of >>> >> > https://go.googlesource.com/proposal/+/master/design/go2draft-error-handling-overview.md. >>> >> > >>> >> > None of them have been adopted. >>> >> > >>> >> > I remember what was happening to "try" error handling proposal. It was >>> >> > withdrawn only because of active resistance by the community. >>> >> > >>> >> > And what's happened to a new "generics" proposal, it also got a lot of >>> >> > critics but was "accepted" in less than a month after formal >>> >> > publication on github. As Russ said "No change in consensus". What >>> >> > does it mean? Who are these people who can change the consensus? How >>> >> > was it measured? A few days after Russ locked it, so nobody can even >>> >> > say a word against it if they wanted. So it looks very much that >>> >> > company management learned from "try" proposal. >>> >> >>> >> The design draft was put up for discussion for months before it became >>> >> a formal proposal. It was not new. >>> >> >>> >> The formal proposal (https://golang.org/issue/43651) got 1784 thumbs >>> >> up and 123 thumbs down (and ten "confused"). Yes, there were critics. >>> >> But I think it is fair to say that the proposal has far more >>> >> supporters than critics. >>> >> >>> >> The "no change in consensus" comment refers to the discussion after >>> >> the proposal was moved to "likely accept" status: >>> >> https://github.com/golang/go/issues/43651#issuecomment-772744198. >>> >> After it was marked as "likely accept", there was no change to the >>> >> consensus that it should be accepted. (Note that the "likely accept" >>> >> comment got 60 thumbs up and 0 thumbs down (and one "confused").) >>> >> >>> >> None of this is anything like the "try" proposal >>> >> (https://golang.org/issue/32437), which had 318 thumbs up and 794 >>> >> thumbs down (and 132 "confused"). >>> >> >>> >> Ian >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> > "golang-nuts" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> > email to golang-nuts...@googlegroups.com. >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/932a39b7-be1b-4c15-b7c8-f99fce730b0en%40googlegroups.com. >>> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "golang-nuts" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/6a690d7a-1f20-42d3-8528-94b80891d239n%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "golang-nuts" group. 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