David, I was not confused about the reasons for the change in terminology. OP indicated confusion about that change in terminology, and asked how the new terms related to their past experience. I was attempting to provide that connection.
I don't use csv much at all with GnuCash, preferring to enter information myself. I'm also not that troubled by the changes in terminology; if it confused me, I'd try a couple of imports in different configurations and note which one worked for me. David T. On Feb 9, 2025, 1:11 PM, at 1:11 PM, David Cousens <davidcousen...@gmail.com> wrote: >David > >I think the main issue is there is no well defined protocol/standard >for CSV data and the importer does not know where the CSV file >originates and whether the data is presented from the perspective of >the entity which provided the data or that of the entity which has >received the data which makes the use of the terms Debit/Credit and or >Deposit/Withdrawal ambiguous. > >If these terms were used in the internal headers assigned to the >columns of data there would be circumstances in which the header Debit >had to be applied to a column which the source of the file labelled as >Credit a common occurrence with data from Banks for example. > >I think the idea is to provide for maximum flexibility in the use of >the CSV data which means that the user importing the data has to be >cognizant of the origins of the data and the entity for which it was >prepared and the relationship to the entity whose books the data is >being imported into. > >David Cousens > >On Sun, 2025-02-09 at 10:15 +0300, sunfish62--- via gnucash-user wrote: >> Since no one else has stepped in, I'll add my perspective. Please >> bear in mind that I don't use csv imports much. >> >> You originally asked what relationship the new terms had to the old >> ones. >> >> My recollection of the discussions (which take place on gnucash.org, >> not reddit or github, fysa) is that the earlier terminology >> (Deposit/Withdrawal) was ambiguous and would vary depending on the >> account type. Formal accountants in the user group felt that these >> terms should be replaced with more accurate ones. >> >> I don't recall now why the formal accounting terms (Debit/Credit) >> weren't chosen-- but I do know that the option was considered and >> dropped consciously. >> >> The ultimate decision as I recall was to use the Amount/ Amount >> (Negated) terminology as a compromise. I don't recall anything about >> single versus double column csv formats. >> >> To answer your original question, Amount and Amount (Negated) >> correspond to Deposit and Withdrawal. I suspect Transfer Amount and >> Transfer Amount (Negated) are used in different account types and >> also correspond to Deposit and Withdrawal. >> >> Which new entry goes with which old entry I can't say because I don't >> use csv imports and I am not an accountant. I imagine a few trials >> would quickly answer the question, though. >> >> David T. >> >> On Feb 9, 2025, 8:30 AM, at 8:30 AM, Gio Bacareza >> <gbacar...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > So I searched more in Reddit and GitHub and it seems that this has >> > not >> > been >> > resolved yet. Here's the summary of my findings if any of you would >> > find it >> > useful. >> > >> > - *May 2023 – rellieberman*: Reported confusion over removal of >> > *Deposit/Withdrawal* fields in CSV import. >> > - *May 2023 – Vincent Dawans, John Ralls*: Discussed renaming >> > *"Amount >> > (Negated)"* to *"Amount (sign-reversed)"* and adding *dynamic >> > labels >> > per >> > account type*. >> > - *May–June 2023 – Community Discussion*: Debated *single-column >> > vs. >> > dual-column support* and whether to use *formal Debit/Credit >> > labels*. >> > - *July 1, 2023 – **dawansv*: moved convo to Bug 798922 - No >> > withdrawal/deposit fields in csv import dialog #1699 and Proposed >> > dynamic >> > column labels based on *base account selection* and UI >> > improvements* >> > commit*: >> > Implemented *dynamic column labels*, added *formal accounting >> > labels*, >> > and >> > updated *import instructions*. >> > - *July 2023 – nomis, flywire, gjanssens*: Suggested keeping >> > *dual-column >> > support* but ensuring *single-column imports work*. >> > - *February 2025 – User Testing (you)*: Found that *single-column >> > "Amount" >> > import does not work*, requiring *dual-column workaround*. >> > - *Current Status*: Feature *not fully functional*; likely >> > *incomplete >> > implementation or a bug*. Bug report recommended. >> > >> > sources https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798922 and >> > https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/1699 >> > >> > On Sun, Feb 9, 2025 at 12:38 PM Gio Bacareza <gbacar...@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Dear Brad and Others, >> > > >> > > Thank you for your response. >> > > >> > > I appreciate the link you provided, but it seems to only discuss >> > > QIF >> > > conversions. While I may consider QIF in the future, I'm >> > > currently >> > looking >> > > for guidance specifically on the new CSV import fields in GnuCash >> > 5.10. >> > > >> > > I've used CSV import successfully in the past. However, the >> > > recent >> > update >> > > introduced new terminology (Amount, Amount (Negated), Transfer >> > Amount, >> > > Transfer Amount (Negated)) that I'm struggling to understand in >> > relation to >> > > my previous CSV structure. >> > > >> > > I have already searched the GnuCash documentation and wikis, but >> > > I >> > haven't >> > > found any information about these new terms. The documentation >> > > still >> > seems >> > > to refer to the old "Withdrawal" and "Deposit" fields. >> > > >> > > For example from >> > > https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=5&lang=C&doc=help, this >> > > is >> > what >> > > it says: >> > > >> > > """ >> > > >> > > The dropdown list of *GnuCash* transaction data fields which may >> > > be >> > > associated with a column of the imported data contains the >> > > following: >> > > >> > > - >> > > >> > > *None*: The column is not assigned to a transaction data field >> > > and >> > is >> > > not imported; >> > > - >> > > >> > > *Date*: Ensure the date format in the column matches the >> > Miscellaneous >> > > date Format Setting; >> > > - >> > > >> > > *Num*: Transaction Num field - Use for check numbers etc.; >> > > - >> > > >> > > *Description*; >> > > - >> > > >> > > *Notes*; >> > > - >> > > >> > > *Transaction Commodity*; >> > > - >> > > >> > > *Void Reason*; >> > > - >> > > >> > > *Action*; >> > > - >> > > >> > > *Account*: This header should be matched to a column >> > > specifying >> > the >> > > source account for a transaction if it is present. Otherwise, >> > > set >> > the >> > > source account in the *Account* combo box; >> > > - >> > > >> > > *Deposit*: Apply this header to a column containing the amount >> > > of >> > the >> > > transaction. Positive amounts in the column generally >> > > represent an >> > increase >> > > in the account balance and negative amounts a decrease in the >> > balance >> > > (asset accounts: Checking, Savings). In external statements >> > supplied by a >> > > bank for a check or savings account, a credit (Cr) is normally >> > > an >> > increase >> > > in the account balance and a debit (Dr) a decrease in the >> > > account >> > balance. >> > > In the banks eyes, your savings or checking account is a >> > > Liability >> > to them; >> > > >> > > If the amount data is in separate columns for debits and >> > > credits >> > you >> > > will have to apply both this heading and the Withdrawal >> > > heading. >> > > - >> > > >> > > *Withdrawal*: Apply this header to a column with the amount of >> > > the >> > > transaction where positive amounts in the column represent a >> > decrease in >> > > the account balance and negative amounts an increase in the >> > balance (e.g. >> > > Liability account: credit card). >> > > >> > > """ >> > > And from >> > > >> > >https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v5/C/gnucash-manual/trans-import.html#idm6675 >> > > : >> > > """ >> > > >> > > The import panel shows the data being imported as it is >> > > interpreted >> > using >> > > the settings chosen to define columns and formats. The dropdown >> > > lists >> > in >> > > the headers for each column of the import allow you to associate >> > > a >> > specific >> > > column in the imported data with a specific field in the display >> > > of a >> > > transaction in an account register. At a minimum to import data, >> > columns in >> > > the imported data containing the following information *must* be >> > > specified: >> > > >> > > - >> > > >> > > *Date*: of transaction; >> > > - >> > > >> > > *Account*: into which transaction is to be imported (or >> > alternatively >> > > set the base account as above); >> > > - >> > > >> > > *Description*: of the transaction; >> > > - >> > > >> > > *Deposit or Withdrawal*: column. >> > > >> > > """ >> > > >> > > There is no mention at all of the new terms: *Amount, Amount >> > (Negated), >> > > Transfer Amount, Transfer Amount (Negated)* >> > > >> > > I would be grateful if you could provide clarification on the new >> > > CSV >> > > field names and how they should be used. >> > > >> > > By the way, I'm on MacOS Sequoia 15.3 >> > > >> > > Sincerely, >> > > Gio >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 7:57 PM Brad Morrison >> > > <bradmorri...@sonic.net> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Hi Gio/GNUCash users, >> > > > >> > > > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Importing.2FExporting_Data - >> > > > here >> > is >> > > > the FAQ section on importing & exporting data, you could also >> > > > try >> > > > searching the GnuCash Wiki for more information for "CSV" >> > > > >> > > > In addition, which operating system are you using? >> > > > >> > > > --- >> > > > Thanks, >> > > > >> > > > Brad - https://www.facebook.com/brad.morrison.12327/ &; >> > > > https://nextdoor.com/profile/01mP46jj8KCzj3sP4 &; >> > > > https://norcal.social/@BradMorrison >> > > > >> > > > On 2025-02-07 22:04, Gio Bacareza wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Dear GnuCash Community, >> > > > > >> > > > > I recently upgraded GnuCash on my Mac to Version 5.10 and >> > > > > noticed >> > a >> > > > > significant change in the CSV import feature. The "Deposit" >> > > > > and >> > > > > "Withdrawal" fields have been replaced with "Amount," "Amount >> > > > (Negated)," >> > > > > "Transfer Amount," and "Transfer Amount (Negated)." >> > > > > >> > > > > My previous CSV structure was straightforward: date, >> > > > > description, >> > > > account, >> > > > > transfer account, withdrawal, deposit. I'm having trouble >> > understanding >> > > > the >> > > > > differences between the new fields and how they relate to my >> > > > > old >> > CSV >> > > > > format. I've searched the documentation, but it doesn't seem >> > > > > to be >> > > > updated >> > > > > yet, as it still refers to withdrawals and deposits. >> > > > > >> > > > > Could you please clarify the purpose of each new field and >> > > > > provide >> > > > guidance >> > > > > on how to map my old CSV data to the new format? >> > > > > >> > > > > Thank you for your time and assistance. >> > > > > >> > > > > Sincerely, >> > > > > Gio >> > > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > > gnucash-user mailing list >> > > > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> > > > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> > > > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> > > > > ----- >> > > > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> > > > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > gnucash-user mailing list >> > > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> > > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> > > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> > > > ----- >> > > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> > > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > cheers, >> > > >> > > Gio >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > cheers, >> > >> > Gio >> > _______________________________________________ >> > gnucash-user mailing list >> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> > ----- >> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> _______________________________________________ >> gnucash-user mailing list >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> ----- >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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