David I think the main issue is there is no well defined protocol/standard for CSV data and the importer does not know where the CSV file originates and whether the data is presented from the perspective of the entity which provided the data or that of the entity which has received the data which makes the use of the terms Debit/Credit and or Deposit/Withdrawal ambiguous.
If these terms were used in the internal headers assigned to the columns of data there would be circumstances in which the header Debit had to be applied to a column which the source of the file labelled as Credit a common occurrence with data from Banks for example. I think the idea is to provide for maximum flexibility in the use of the CSV data which means that the user importing the data has to be cognizant of the origins of the data and the entity for which it was prepared and the relationship to the entity whose books the data is being imported into. David Cousens On Sun, 2025-02-09 at 10:15 +0300, sunfish62--- via gnucash-user wrote: > Since no one else has stepped in, I'll add my perspective. Please > bear in mind that I don't use csv imports much. > > You originally asked what relationship the new terms had to the old > ones. > > My recollection of the discussions (which take place on gnucash.org, > not reddit or github, fysa) is that the earlier terminology > (Deposit/Withdrawal) was ambiguous and would vary depending on the > account type. Formal accountants in the user group felt that these > terms should be replaced with more accurate ones. > > I don't recall now why the formal accounting terms (Debit/Credit) > weren't chosen-- but I do know that the option was considered and > dropped consciously. > > The ultimate decision as I recall was to use the Amount/ Amount > (Negated) terminology as a compromise. I don't recall anything about > single versus double column csv formats. > > To answer your original question, Amount and Amount (Negated) > correspond to Deposit and Withdrawal. I suspect Transfer Amount and > Transfer Amount (Negated) are used in different account types and > also correspond to Deposit and Withdrawal. > > Which new entry goes with which old entry I can't say because I don't > use csv imports and I am not an accountant. I imagine a few trials > would quickly answer the question, though. > > David T. > > On Feb 9, 2025, 8:30 AM, at 8:30 AM, Gio Bacareza > <gbacar...@gmail.com> wrote: > > So I searched more in Reddit and GitHub and it seems that this has > > not > > been > > resolved yet. Here's the summary of my findings if any of you would > > find it > > useful. > > > > - *May 2023 – rellieberman*: Reported confusion over removal of > > *Deposit/Withdrawal* fields in CSV import. > > - *May 2023 – Vincent Dawans, John Ralls*: Discussed renaming > > *"Amount > > (Negated)"* to *"Amount (sign-reversed)"* and adding *dynamic > > labels > > per > > account type*. > > - *May–June 2023 – Community Discussion*: Debated *single-column > > vs. > > dual-column support* and whether to use *formal Debit/Credit > > labels*. > > - *July 1, 2023 – **dawansv*: moved convo to Bug 798922 - No > > withdrawal/deposit fields in csv import dialog #1699 and Proposed > > dynamic > > column labels based on *base account selection* and UI > > improvements* > > commit*: > > Implemented *dynamic column labels*, added *formal accounting > > labels*, > > and > > updated *import instructions*. > > - *July 2023 – nomis, flywire, gjanssens*: Suggested keeping > > *dual-column > > support* but ensuring *single-column imports work*. > > - *February 2025 – User Testing (you)*: Found that *single-column > > "Amount" > > import does not work*, requiring *dual-column workaround*. > > - *Current Status*: Feature *not fully functional*; likely > > *incomplete > > implementation or a bug*. Bug report recommended. > > > > sources https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798922 and > > https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/1699 > > > > On Sun, Feb 9, 2025 at 12:38 PM Gio Bacareza <gbacar...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Brad and Others, > > > > > > Thank you for your response. > > > > > > I appreciate the link you provided, but it seems to only discuss > > > QIF > > > conversions. While I may consider QIF in the future, I'm > > > currently > > looking > > > for guidance specifically on the new CSV import fields in GnuCash > > 5.10. > > > > > > I've used CSV import successfully in the past. However, the > > > recent > > update > > > introduced new terminology (Amount, Amount (Negated), Transfer > > Amount, > > > Transfer Amount (Negated)) that I'm struggling to understand in > > relation to > > > my previous CSV structure. > > > > > > I have already searched the GnuCash documentation and wikis, but > > > I > > haven't > > > found any information about these new terms. The documentation > > > still > > seems > > > to refer to the old "Withdrawal" and "Deposit" fields. > > > > > > For example from > > > https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=5&lang=C&doc=help, this > > > is > > what > > > it says: > > > > > > """ > > > > > > The dropdown list of *GnuCash* transaction data fields which may > > > be > > > associated with a column of the imported data contains the > > > following: > > > > > > - > > > > > > *None*: The column is not assigned to a transaction data field > > > and > > is > > > not imported; > > > - > > > > > > *Date*: Ensure the date format in the column matches the > > Miscellaneous > > > date Format Setting; > > > - > > > > > > *Num*: Transaction Num field - Use for check numbers etc.; > > > - > > > > > > *Description*; > > > - > > > > > > *Notes*; > > > - > > > > > > *Transaction Commodity*; > > > - > > > > > > *Void Reason*; > > > - > > > > > > *Action*; > > > - > > > > > > *Account*: This header should be matched to a column > > > specifying > > the > > > source account for a transaction if it is present. Otherwise, > > > set > > the > > > source account in the *Account* combo box; > > > - > > > > > > *Deposit*: Apply this header to a column containing the amount > > > of > > the > > > transaction. Positive amounts in the column generally > > > represent an > > increase > > > in the account balance and negative amounts a decrease in the > > balance > > > (asset accounts: Checking, Savings). In external statements > > supplied by a > > > bank for a check or savings account, a credit (Cr) is normally > > > an > > increase > > > in the account balance and a debit (Dr) a decrease in the > > > account > > balance. > > > In the banks eyes, your savings or checking account is a > > > Liability > > to them; > > > > > > If the amount data is in separate columns for debits and > > > credits > > you > > > will have to apply both this heading and the Withdrawal > > > heading. > > > - > > > > > > *Withdrawal*: Apply this header to a column with the amount of > > > the > > > transaction where positive amounts in the column represent a > > decrease in > > > the account balance and negative amounts an increase in the > > balance (e.g. > > > Liability account: credit card). > > > > > > """ > > > And from > > > > > https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v5/C/gnucash-manual/trans-import.html#idm6675 > > > : > > > """ > > > > > > The import panel shows the data being imported as it is > > > interpreted > > using > > > the settings chosen to define columns and formats. The dropdown > > > lists > > in > > > the headers for each column of the import allow you to associate > > > a > > specific > > > column in the imported data with a specific field in the display > > > of a > > > transaction in an account register. At a minimum to import data, > > columns in > > > the imported data containing the following information *must* be > > > specified: > > > > > > - > > > > > > *Date*: of transaction; > > > - > > > > > > *Account*: into which transaction is to be imported (or > > alternatively > > > set the base account as above); > > > - > > > > > > *Description*: of the transaction; > > > - > > > > > > *Deposit or Withdrawal*: column. > > > > > > """ > > > > > > There is no mention at all of the new terms: *Amount, Amount > > (Negated), > > > Transfer Amount, Transfer Amount (Negated)* > > > > > > I would be grateful if you could provide clarification on the new > > > CSV > > > field names and how they should be used. > > > > > > By the way, I'm on MacOS Sequoia 15.3 > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Gio > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 7:57 PM Brad Morrison > > > <bradmorri...@sonic.net> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Gio/GNUCash users, > > > > > > > > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Importing.2FExporting_Data - > > > > here > > is > > > > the FAQ section on importing & exporting data, you could also > > > > try > > > > searching the GnuCash Wiki for more information for "CSV" > > > > > > > > In addition, which operating system are you using? > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Brad - https://www.facebook.com/brad.morrison.12327/ &; > > > > https://nextdoor.com/profile/01mP46jj8KCzj3sP4 &; > > > > https://norcal.social/@BradMorrison > > > > > > > > On 2025-02-07 22:04, Gio Bacareza wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear GnuCash Community, > > > > > > > > > > I recently upgraded GnuCash on my Mac to Version 5.10 and > > > > > noticed > > a > > > > > significant change in the CSV import feature. The "Deposit" > > > > > and > > > > > "Withdrawal" fields have been replaced with "Amount," "Amount > > > > (Negated)," > > > > > "Transfer Amount," and "Transfer Amount (Negated)." > > > > > > > > > > My previous CSV structure was straightforward: date, > > > > > description, > > > > account, > > > > > transfer account, withdrawal, deposit. I'm having trouble > > understanding > > > > the > > > > > differences between the new fields and how they relate to my > > > > > old > > CSV > > > > > format. I've searched the documentation, but it doesn't seem > > > > > to be > > > > updated > > > > > yet, as it still refers to withdrawals and deposits. > > > > > > > > > > Could you please clarify the purpose of each new field and > > > > > provide > > > > guidance > > > > > on how to map my old CSV data to the new format? > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your time and assistance. > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > Gio > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > gnucash-user mailing list > > > > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > > > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > > > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > > > > ----- > > > > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > > > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > gnucash-user mailing list > > > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > > > ----- > > > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > cheers, > > > > > > Gio > > > > > > > > > -- > > cheers, > > > > Gio > > _______________________________________________ > > gnucash-user mailing list > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > ----- > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > _______________________________________________ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > ----- > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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