Flavio, There’s one more little wrinkle that seems to be evading you. When you create a multi-commodity transaction the transaction has a currency that’s determined by the account of the register you start in (or the first currency-denominated parent if the register is for a non-currency commodity). The transaction currency is used to balance the transaction, that is to make sure that the sums of the debits and credits are equal. Any split that’s denominated in a different currency or commodity needs a price/exchange rate to determine the value of that split in the transaction currency.
So in your transfer of CHF to USD example if you start from the USD register then the transaction currency is USD and both the transferred amount and the CHF fee expense split need to be priced into USD so that GnuCash can balance the transaction. Note too that GnuCash balances only in the transaction currency, so if the CHF splits use different exchange rates the CHF amounts won’t balance. In GnuCash the transaction-currency number is called “value” and the split-account-currency number is called amount. This is made concrete in non-currency registers (for account types STOCK and MUTUAL FUND) where the amount is the “shares” column and the value is the “debit”/“buy” and “credit”/“sell” (which label depends on the Use formal accounting labels preference). To make things even more confusing the numbers displayed in currency (everything that isn’t STOCK or MUTUAL FUND) are different depending on whether you have trading accounts enabled for the book (that’s set in File>Properties on the first tab). If trading accounts are not enabled (the default) then a register displays everything in that register’s currency. If trading accounts are enabled then the register shows the amount of each split in that split’s currency. Having trading accounts enabled also creates additional splits to special tracking accounts that help you recognize trading gains and losses so that you can account for them and keep your overall book in balance. More details on using trading accounts in https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v5/C/gnucash-guide/currency_trading_accts.html. Regards, John Ralls > On Nov 11, 2024, at 13:10, Boniforti Flavio <bonifort...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Richard. > > As you might've read in the other thread, I've made some progress and > solved the issue related to VT stocks and the currency account. > Now I am just getting back to you on the last part of this thread: > registering the Forex transaction with splits, including fees. I've now > tried to simulate converting CHF 10.- into USD and adding the fees as > splits. > First of all, in the "CHF Cash" account I enter a transaction called "Forex > CHF.USD", where I put "10" in the "Withdrawal" column. When confirming the > transaction, I'm prompted with the following pop-up window: > [image: image.png] > To me this is perfectly fine: I get asked about the conversion/exchange > rate as I'm transferring CHF into USD. > Now it gets strange to me. Let's assume I have CHF 1.- in fees - I would > edit the transaction I just confirmed, click on "show splits" and then add > a Withdrawal of CHF 1.- (from the same account I'm editing, "CHF Cash"), > for which the other account is "Fees Forex CHF.USD". When I first enter the > withdrawal I again get asked about the conversion rate - whereas if I first > enter the deposit on the "Fees Forex CHF.USD" account, then I can enter the > CHF 1.- withdrawal without GNC asking me for conversion. > Is this normal/expected behavior? > > Thanks, > F. > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com <https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com/> > > > Am Mo., 11. Nov. 2024 um 17:35 Uhr schrieb R Losey <rlo...@gmail.com > <mailto:rlo...@gmail.com>>: > >> My answers will be below your items. I'm glad I've been able to be of some >> help. >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 5:58 AM Boniforti Flavio <bonifort...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Richard. >>> Now I finally got time to read through your reply and understand/learn. >>> Here is my feedback/reply. Thanks again! >>> >>> *USD Dividends* >>> You're right, it was not at the right place. I moved it under "Income". >>> When I get paid dividends, how should I register this transaction? Do I >>> increase both the "Income:USD Dividends" and the "Assets:IBKR:USD Cash" >>> accounts? >>> As the dividends on IBKR are automatically reinvested, I would then add >>> another transaction, representing the purchase of VT stocks. >>> >> >> Yes; dividends would increase both of those (in accounting jargon, >> however, one of these - the IBKR:USD Cash is a debit and the other is a >> credit) >> >> You could do reinvestments that way; I don't bother... I go to the stock >> and make a "Reinvest Dividends" purchase, with the Income:USD Dividends >> being the "other" account. >> >> >> >>> *Wire transactions* >>> Yes, I do have more than one wire transfer from my Swiss checking account >>> to IBKR. I've added these transactions as "Assets:Swiss Checking Account" >>> --> "Assets:IBKR:CHF Cash". >>> >>> *Forex CHF.USD* >>> When I sell CHF to buy USD (to be able to buy VT stocks in USD), I have >>> to pay a transaction fee. As an example, I exchanged CHF 9,998.- and got >>> USD 11,214.26 for which I paid CHF 1.78 in commissions. This I entered as >>> follows into GnuCash: >>> "Assets:IBKR:CHF Cash" --> "Assets:IBKR:USD Cash" and I verified the >>> exchange rate (which should match the "T. Price" in IBKR). In the above >>> example this was correct (what I see in IBKR's statement is exactly the >>> exchange rate GNC has calculated). >>> I then added a second transaction to register the Forex fee: >>> "Assets:IBKR:CHF Cash" --> "Expenses:IBKR:Forex fees in CHF". Does this >>> sound right? And is there any way to have the fees included into the Forex >>> transaction (like with splits)? I tried this route, but I was being asked >>> about the exchange rate - which in my eyes shouldn't apply, as both the >>> "CHF Cash" account on IBKR and the expenses account "Forex fees in CHF" are >>> in CHF. >>> >> >> What you are doing will work; however, you should be able to do this all >> in one transaction using a split - since it is one transaction, I find it >> better to do it as one transaction with splits instead of two separate >> transactions. (But that is partially preference). As a matter of >> preference, I tend to have exchange rate fees as it's own expense, but it >> is perfectly fine where you have them. >> >> If I read your example above correctly, you reduced your CHF cash by CHF >> 9999.78 CHF, of which CHF 1.78 is the transaction fee and 9998 is converted >> to USD 11,214.26. Thus, to do this in one transaction, you'd have the >> following three-way transaction: >> >> 1) Decrease IBKR:CHF Cash by 9999.78 >> 2) Assign CHF 1.78 to the expenses "Forex fees" - there are "shares" and >> "price" columns, but you can ignore these and just enter the amount. I >> think there may be examples online when I was trying to figure out how to >> do this. >> 3) Have the remaining CHF 9998 convert to USD 11,214.26 -- this should >> produce the correct exchange rate. >> >> >>> *Fees in general* >>> I agree with you keeping the fees separate from the transactions they've >>> been generated from. >>> >>> Can you help me with the above questions? >>> Thanks, >>> F. >>> >>> https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music >>> https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music >>> https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com >>> >>> >>> Am Di., 5. Nov. 2024 um 01:57 Uhr schrieb R Losey <rlo...@gmail.com>: >>> >>>> Hello. >>>> >>>> I don't think that the "USD Dividends" would be under IBKR - that should >>>> be somewhere else, probably under "Income" somewhere. When you are paid a >>>> dividend, it either goes into the "Cash" fund, or else it is reinvested and >>>> more stock is purchased. If the dividends are invested, you'd have a >>>> "purchase" of that stock. For example, if you received $100 in dividends >>>> and it purchased 5 shares of VT stock (using simple numbers to keep it >>>> easy), you have a transaction in IBKR-VT that purchased 5 shares for $100 >>>> and the "other" account would be an income account -- for me, it goes in >>>> "Income:Investment Income:Taxable:Dividends". >>>> >>>> Other comments -- see below, but I do want to note (as others have) that >>>> I am not an accountant. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 3, 2024 at 4:25 AM Boniforti Flavio <bonifort...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Richard. >>>>> I think I was already going that route --> >>>>> [image: image.png] >>>>> >>>>> As of now, I have just put all the CHF Cash in that account. >>>>> As I've added CHF in 5-6 different transactions and in between those I >>>>> have also converted to USD and bought VT stocks, would I need to zero the >>>>> "CHF Cash" account, then add each CHF wire transfer transaction >>>>> individually? >>>>> >>>> >>>> If each wire transaction is separate, there is the chance that the >>>> exchange rate would be different, so I would enter them as different >>>> transactions. >>>> >>>> But unless you take all of the funds from the CHF Cash account, it >>>> doesn't need to be zeroed. Assuming that there is $1000 in CHF Cash and >>>> $1000 in USD Cash, you could remove any or all of the CHF Cash, and then >>>> add the appropriate USD amount to the USD Cash account. >>>> >>>> Next, you would have a transaction for the purchase of VT stock, with >>>> the funds comes from the USD Cash account. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> And then for each currency conversion I did, create the according >>>>> transaction between "CHF Cash" and "USD Cash" accounts, after which I >>>>> would >>>>> add the VT purchase transactions - right? >>>>> >>>> >>>> That sounds right to me. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> If I do it like that, I could "hide" the ForEx trading fees by simply >>>>> adjusting the conversion rate (like if I had converted CHF 1'000.- and I >>>>> got USD 1'140.- and paid 1 USD fees, I could just "ignore" the fee and >>>>> adjust the conversion rate so that it gives CHF 1000 --> USD 1140). Would >>>>> that work? >>>>> >>>> >>>> It may "work" but it would probably be more accurate to have a split >>>> transaction with that shows the CHF 1'000 decreasing by 1'000 and then the >>>> USD account going up by 1'141 with a USD 1 decrease assigned to the account >>>> where you track the exchange fees. That way the CHF-to-USD rate would be >>>> correct, and you could see what you are paying for exchange rates. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> | Would this process also work when buying VT stocks? In that case, I >>>> buy a fixed amount of VT stocks at the VT price, and I could >>>> | "hide" the fees by adjusting the stock unit price?! >>>> >>>> Again, I suppose you **could** do that, but I usually put the fees in >>>> separately. If I spend $1000 purchasing a stock that is worth $998, the >>>> other $2 is assigned to my account for Investment Fees >>>> ("Expenses:Investment:Fees") >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> What's not clear to me at this point is: if I will have 1000 VT stocks, >>>>> where will the actual value be reflected/calculated? Is it depending on >>>>> manual retrieving the VT quotes via Finance::Quote? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, if you are getting quotes via the stock quote your VT value will >>>> reflect the last price update you retrieve. It will NOT change your >>>> transaction. However, by "hiding" the fee as you propose, it will look >>>> like you've lost money when you have not. See the following example: >>>> >>>> You spend $100 to purchase 10 shares of VT, but there is a fee of $5. >>>> The reality is that you paid $95 for those 10 shares, or $9.50 a share... >>>> however, by "hiding" the fee in the price, it looks as if you paid >>>> $10/share. The next day, the price goes up to $9.75 -- you have actually >>>> gained $2.50 ($0.25 gain on 10 shares); however, in GnuCash, it will look >>>> like the price has "dropped" from $10 to $9.75 and that you have lost $0.25 >>>> per share). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> F. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I hope this is helpful... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Am Mo., 21. Okt. 2024 um 19:32 Uhr schrieb R Losey <rlo...@gmail.com>: >>>>> >>>>>> Part of this is up to you, and GnuCash is flexible because >>>>>> configurations can change. >>>>>> >>>>>> I assume IBKR is your broker, and you have a single, normal brokerage >>>>>> account that deals in mutual funds and stocks. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would create a brokerage account and note that it is with IBKR; I >>>>>> assume cash is help somewhere like a sweep account. I cannot tell if you >>>>>> have both a USD sweep and a CHF sweep; if you do, I'd create a subaccount >>>>>> for each. Then I'd create an entry in the Security for the VT mutual >>>>>> fund, >>>>>> and create a subaccount in IBKR something like IBKR-VT that tracks the VT >>>>>> shares you own. Each buy or sell of VT will be its own transaction, with >>>>>> the funds coming from the USD sweep. Money you send to IBKR will, I >>>>>> assume, go into the CHF sweep, and then either manually or automatically, >>>>>> get converted to USD as you make purchases. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dividends are just another transaction; if you are reinvesting >>>>>> dividends, you'll add the transaction, but the "other" account will be >>>>>> some >>>>>> dividend income account - for me, I have an "Income:Investment >>>>>> Income:Taxable:Dividends" account for these things. Dividends that are >>>>>> not >>>>>> reinvested, will be entered in the sweep fund instead of purchasing more >>>>>> of >>>>>> the mutual fund, but would still be assigned to the dividend account. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 7:04 PM Boniforti Flavio < >>>>>> bonifort...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd like to get some suggestions/guidance and eventually validate if >>>>>>> my way >>>>>>> of doing this is correct. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've put some money into IBKR (CHF) which I then converted into USD >>>>>>> to buy >>>>>>> VT. For the time being, I've just added the transactions in the "CHF >>>>>>> Cash" >>>>>>> account on IBKR, where I now see the actual money I put there. Now >>>>>>> there's >>>>>>> a few questions I can't answer on my own. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As of today there is still some cash left on both CHF and USD accounts >>>>>>> (peanuts, just to cover currency conversion fees), and the rest is >>>>>>> invested >>>>>>> in VT, how should I proceed to enter the various transactions, so >>>>>>> that it >>>>>>> finally reflects the actual status (some CHF Cash, come USD Cash and >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> rest in VT)? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I bought VT like 4 or 5 times, of course at different stock prices. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Should I create a sub-account called "VT" (type "mutual funds"), then >>>>>>> add >>>>>>> each purchase transaction by taking the money from my "USD Cash" >>>>>>> account, >>>>>>> until the balance corresponds to the actual one on IBKR? >>>>>>> Of course, in advance I would need to add the CHF-to-USD currency >>>>>>> conversion for each time I bought VT shares. Here I don't know if I >>>>>>> should >>>>>>> add a sub-account related to conversion fees or not. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Last but not least: when I will have set things right (which means >>>>>>> having >>>>>>> the CHF and USD cash accounts showing the actual/real amount and also >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> VT number of shares), will it be enough to update the VT share price >>>>>>> manually to see how much I do have on IBKR? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And how do I deal with dividends? Should I add another sub-account >>>>>>> for the >>>>>>> dividends? I automatically reinvest dividends in VT - how to deal >>>>>>> with this? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know it's a bunch of questions, but maybe some kind soul will be >>>>>>> able to >>>>>>> help me walking through this :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> F. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music >>>>>>> https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music >>>>>>> https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> gnucash-user mailing list >>>>>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>>>>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>>>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>>>>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> _________________________________ >>>>>> Richard Losey >>>>>> rlo...@gmail.com >>>>>> Micah 6:8 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _________________________________ >>>> Richard Losey >>>> rlo...@gmail.com >>>> Micah 6:8 >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> _________________________________ >> Richard Losey >> rlo...@gmail.com >> Micah 6:8 >> > <image.png><image.png>_______________________________________________ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > ----- > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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