Hi David. In fact I don't buy instruments with the goal of making profit out of them. I collect and play them too. In fact, for this situation I would simply account for both purchase and sale as you described.
So there's no tax implication whatsoever in my case. But then... I look at my collection of instruments as an asset, not as an expense. I do own a bunch of vintage instruments, which have the value corresponding to what I've paid for them. So if I consider this collection to be an asset, then the suggested accounts you proposed won't work anymore (please correct me if I'm wrong). I was thinking more of something like this: PURCHASE: "Asset:Bank Account" decrease "Asset:Musical Instruments Collection" increase It becomes for me more difficult to understand how a sale would have to be registered, as it not only increases my bank account, but it also decreases the musical instruments collection - but only of the value I paid for it when I bought it. Given the fact that many items will increase their value over time, there might be a surplus. The easy example is: I bought item A in 2002 for 1000 and I sell it now in 2024 for 2000 --> my collection account would decrease by 1000, my bank account would increase by 2000 but where do I put the surplus? I thought of something like this: SALE: "Asset:Bank Account" increase +2000 "Asset:Musical Instrument Collection" decrease -1000 "Income:Musical Instrument Sales" increase +1000 If the above is correct and feasible, how would I enter it in GC? F. https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com Am Di., 24. Sept. 2024 um 06:48 Uhr schrieb David Cousens < davidcousen...@gmail.com>: > Flavio, > > If you were just buying musical instruments with no intention of earning > income with them or in the future, you would simply record the purchase > transaction as > > Asset :Bank account credit xxx > Expenses: Musical Instruments debit xxx > > and any subsequent sale is > > Asset:bank debit yyy > Income:Musical Instrument Sales credit yyy > > and you may or may not be required to pay tax on that income depending on > your jurisdictions tax rules (in most cases probably not if below some > legislated threshold for business activity), and that would be the end of > it. In most jurisdictions you will also likely be below the threshold > where any such activities are treated on a cash accounting basis, i.e. they > are recorded at the point where the money changes hands. > > When you purchase instruments where the intention is to either resell them > or otherwise use them to generate income usually on some form of fairly > regular basis, then when they are purchased, they are an asset to your > enterprise, whether that is simply personal or a business, so the purchase > becomes an asset rather than an expense. For business usually where > turnover is above a specified threshold set by taxation legislation, you > will be required to record transactions on an accrual timing basis and for > purchases, this is generally at the time when the agreement to make a > specific purchase is entered into, not when the actual; cash changes > hands. Similarly on sales, when you agree to sell an item, the receipt of > income is recorded at the time you agree to do so not necessarily when you > actually receive the funds. > > There is another accounting principle which requires that the recording of > expense of items sold should be matched in timing to the recording of the > income. recording purchases as an asset class inventory meets the first > requirement and recording it as an expense against the Cost of Goods Sold > at the timing of the sale meets the second. The Cost of Goods Sold title > just arises because most businesses will sell many different types of > items. If the expense were recorded at the time of purchase, then the > calculation of profit is thrown out of whack and if you do that your > taxation authorities tend to start accusing you of trying to avoid tax. > Such Inventory and CoGS accounts can have subaccounts for specific items > or classes of items where knowing that information is material to the > management of the business. There are also sales taxes, VAT, GST type > taxes to deal with as well in some jurisdictions. > > On Mon, 2024-09-23 at 17:26 +0200, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > > Hi David. > Thanks for correcting me. > I have a few more questions: > > As of today, I've got "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment CHF" and > "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR" which I consider my inventory > accounts. There I entered the price of a musical instrument which I bought. > I also do have the account "Income:Music Equipment Sales CHF" and > "Income:Music Equipment Sales EUR". > > I'm not understanding the use of the "Expenses:Cost of goods sold" account > - can you explain? > > Thanks, > Flavio. > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > Am Fr., 20. Sept. 2024 um 00:58 Uhr schrieb David Cousens < > davidcousen...@gmail.com>: > > Flavio, > > > I would do the following when selling something for 120 which I bought > for 100: > > 1. increase the checking account by 120; > > 2. increase the "Income:Sales" account by 120; > > 3. increase the "Inventory:Music Equipment Sales" account by 120; > > 4. decrease the "Expenses:Cost of Goods Sold" account by 100. > > These steps are not correct . Your inventory account records the value (at > cost) of the items you are holding so the entry on sale o an item should > equal the cost at purchaser so you your transaction to record it should be: > > 1 . increase (debit) the checking account by 120 > 2. increase (credit) the Income:Sales account by 120 > 3. decrease (credit) the Inventory:Music Equipment Sales account by 100 > 4. increase (debit) the Expenses: Cost of Goods Sold account by 100 > > > The Inventory:Music Equipment Sales account is what is known in > accounting terms as a contra account to the Music Equipment Purchases > which is why it is credited to decrease the balance of Inventory (rather > than debit as is usual to increase the balance of an asset account). I > have added the usual accounting column headings in brackets. Of the two > columns with entries in themthe Debit column is always the first and the > Credit column is always the second followed by the Balance colum last. > > Note that in any transaction the sums of all the debit and all the credit > entries have to be equal, which was not the case for your proposed entries. > > Cheers > David > > > On Thu, 2024-09-19 at 21:52 +0200, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > > Hi David and David :-) > Thanks for your replies. > I'm not running any business at all. I am a musician who also collects > (vintage) music instruments. As I also do play them, it happens a couple of > times a year that I'm not interested anymore in keeping one or the other > instrument. For this reason, I sell a couple of items a year and given the > fact that the majority of my items are "vintage" ones, prices are always > fluctuating. So I want to keep track of how much I've gained (or lost) when > selling an item. > Given the above, I think that if I would only use a single "Music > equipment" account, I could not see how much I made (plus or minus) while > selling some items - right? This is the reason which led me to think > about setting up some accounts to "correctly" keep track of this all. > > Using this: > 1. Debit the Checking account for the total amount of the purchase paid by > the customer; > 2. Credit the Income:Sales account by the total amount of the purchase; > 3. Credit the Inventory: MusicEquipment Sales account by the amount of the > cost of the items sold; > 4. Debit the Expenses:Cost of Goods Sold account by the amount of the > cost of the items sold. > > I would do the following when selling something for 120 which I bought for > 100: > 1. increase the checking account by 120; > 2. increase the "Income:Sales" account by 120; > 3. increase the "Inventory:Music Equipment Sales" account by 120; > 4. decrease the "Expenses:Cost of Goods Sold" account by 100. > > (of course previoulsy I'd had increased the "Inventory:Music Equipment > Purchases" and decreased my "Assets:Checking Account" by 100). > > Am I correct with the above? > TIA, > F. > > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 03:52 Uhr schrieb David Cousens < > davidcousen...@gmail.com>: > > Flavio, > > Why would you need a Music equipment sold account in the first place? > > If your business is making music then: > > when you buy equipment you credit your checking account and debit the > Music Equipment asset account by the amount of the purchase; > when you sell the equipment you debit your checking account and credit > the music equipment account. > > In this case the equipment is not held for the purpose of selling it at > a profit. You may however be subject to capital gains type taxes if > they apply in your jurisdiction and the value of the equipment sold > exceeds the thresholds for such taxes. > > The situation may however be slightly different if your business is > actually retailing music equipment. In this case the Music Equipment > account is essentially an Inventory account - still an asset account. > > You would normally in these circumstances set up an Inventory asset > account which is a placeholder with two sub accounts Inventory:Music > Equipment Purchases and Inventory:Music Equipment Sales. Your Income > top level account will also need a subaccount Income:Sales and your > Expenses top level acoount will need a sub account Expenses:Cost of > Goods Sold (GoGS) > > The basic procedure is the same for purchases of equipment, credit the > checking account and debit the Music Equipment Purchases sub account. > > When you make a sale only the difference between the cost of the > equipment sold and the selling price is your income ( neglecting any > sales tax issues which may also apply) so the following will be the > basic procedure: > > Debit the Checking account for the total amount of the purchase paid by > the customer; > Credit the Income:Sales account by the total amount of the purchase; > Credit the Inventory: MusicEquipment Sales account by the amount of the > cost of the items sold; > Debit the Expenses:Cost of Goods Sold account by the amount of the > cosdt of the items sold. > > Your profit on the transaction is recorde by the difference between the > Income:Sales account and the Expenses:Cost of Goods Sold account > entries. > > Dealing with any applicable taxes will add additional steps to the > accounting as will making allowances returns of purchases to > suppliersof faulty equipment and returns of equipment to you with > faults by customers. You should consult an accountant and consumer > legislation in your jurisdiction in how to deal with these. > > David Cousens > > On Wed, 2024-09-18 at 23:37 +0200, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > > Hi. > > Still very noob here, so bear with me please. > > > > I've got the following accounts (among others): > > > > Music equipment > > Music equipment sold > > Checking account > > > > When I buy music equipment, I take the money from my checking account > > and > > add it to the "music equipment" account. > > When I sell music equipment, how should I register it? I thought that > > the > > account "music equipment" would decrease by the sold value, the > > checking > > account would increase by the same amount... but what happens with > > the > > "Music equipment sold" account? > > Or am I wrong in separating "music equipment" from "music equipment > > sold"? > > > > Thanks, > > F. > > > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > _______________________________________________ > > gnucash-user mailing list > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > ----- > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > _______________________________________________ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > ----- > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > > > _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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