Yes sure that's one perspective and I agree with it, and that's why I have my SIPP in the same GC file as everything else. I was just noting that the way contributions are reported (i.e. as expenses eligible for tax rebates, not as income that is taxed) seems more in line with a different perspective, that the net worth of a SIPP is independent from personal net worth. Isn't a business's net worth different from personal net worth? Isn't it possible to view it both ways?
Ignore me. I'm a novice to GnuCash and naive in economics. I just find it interesting, learning new concepts as part of learning GnuCash. On Fri, 1 May 2020 at 10:41, Christopher Lam <christopher....@gmail.com> wrote: > I wouldn't classify sipp contributions as expense. You'd be incorrectly > reducing your net worth whenever you contribute to it. > > On Fri, 1 May 2020, 5:23 pm Ruaraidh Sackville Hamilton, < > ruaraidh...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Ah yes you are right! I didn't think of the case where an employer pays >> directly into a SIPP. In that case it is clearly an income. Not in mine. >> >> Conceptually, it might be better thought of as a business expense. The >> business is the SIPP and the government encourages investment in the >> business by giving tax rebates on allowable business expenses. Payments >> into the SIPP are reported in the tax report as expenses rather than as >> income. And a SIPP is not like other assets: I can't sell it or trade it, >> and there are strict rules limiting when and how much income I can take >> from it in retirement. So maybe we should look at the SIPP as its own >> independent entity, with income to the SIPP being expenses to our other >> assets, just as reported in tax reports. >> >> But that seems a theoretical discussion, and we have a sort of pragmatic >> solution that works (even though I have to go outside of GnuCash to >> calculate what to put in the tax form) >> >> Thanks again for enlightening comments! >> >> On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 16:30, D. <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > Ah, then yes it's a terminology thing. In my own case, money from my >> > income goes directly into the SIPP as a payroll deduction, so I just >> > transfer from income into the SIPP. It can just as easily go from an >> asset >> > to another asset. >> > >> > >> > -------- Original Message -------- >> > From: Ruaraidh Sackville Hamilton <ruaraidh...@gmail.com> >> > Sent: Thu Apr 30 19:42:46 GMT+05:30 2020 >> > To: "D." <sunfis...@yahoo.com> >> > Cc: "D. via gnucash-user" <gnucash-user@gnucash.org> >> > Subject: Re: [GNC] Reporting transactions >> > >> > Sorry David, I didn't mean to imply I prefer the second to the first >> > option. I just thought it easier to show by editing one of your >> versions, >> > and happened to pick the second. I could as easily have picked the >> first. >> > >> > In my reply I replaced your "Income:Me" with "Assets:my bank account". >> The >> > point is that, when the SIPP is in the same GC file as my other assets, >> the >> > transaction is from one asset (the bank account I used to pay into the >> > SIPP) to another asset (my SIPP). It's not from an income account to the >> > SIPP, so it can't appear in a report of income. >> > >> > If I keep the SIPP in a separate dedicated GC file, then no problem: my >> > contribution appears in the main GC file as an expense against my bank >> > account and as an income in the SIPP GC file. I just wondered if there >> was >> > a way of keeping all assets in one file. >> > >> > Ruaraidh >> > >> > On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 14:41, D. <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> > > ??? >> > > >> > > Perhaps this is a terminology thing, but aren't you just re-presenting >> > the >> > > second option I gave originally? >> > > >> > > Think of it another way: there are two sources for the funding of your >> > > SIPP: your contribution, and the government's. How you handle your own >> > > contribution depends on your workflow; the government is giving you >> > money, >> > > so that's an income account. I offered two methods of recording that >> > > two-step; yours is a repetition of my second method. >> > > >> > > I personally use the first, since the two events are inextricably >> linked >> > > (the second never happens without the first). >> > > >> > > Or am I missing something? >> > > >> > > David >> > > >> > > >> > > -------- Original Message -------- >> > > From: Ruaraidh Sackville Hamilton <ruaraidh...@gmail.com> >> > > Sent: Thu Apr 30 17:20:34 GMT+05:30 2020 >> > > To: "D." <sunfis...@yahoo.com> >> > > Cc: Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org> >> > > Subject: Re: [GNC] Reporting transactions >> > > >> > > That covers it if the SIPP is in a separate GC file of its own, where >> my >> > > contribution is an income (and an expense from my bank account in the >> > main >> > > GC file, which I use to fund the contribution). >> > > >> > > But if it's all in one GC file we have >> > > >> > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Contribution Assets:SIPP £100 >> > > My contribution Assets:my bank account £100 >> > > >> > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Govt Contribution Assets:SIPP £25 >> > > Government contribution Income:GovContrib £25 >> > > >> > > Am I wrong? >> > > >> > > Ruaraidh >> > > >> > > On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 12:33, D. <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > >> > > > Set up an independent income account for the government >> contributions: >> > > > >> > > > Income:GovContrib >> > > > >> > > > Then add either a split to your contribution for the government, >> > > > >> > > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Contribution Assets:SIPP £125 >> > > > My contribution Income:Me £100 >> > > > Government contribution Income:GovContrib £25 >> > > > >> > > > or a separate transaction, >> > > > >> > > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Contribution Assets:SIPP £100 >> > > > My contribution Income:Me £100 >> > > > >> > > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Govt Contribution Assets:SIPP £25 >> > > > Government contribution Income:GovContrib £25 >> > > > >> > > > That should cover it, yes? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -------- Original Message -------- >> > > > From: Ruaraidh <ruaraidh...@gmail.com> >> > > > Sent: Thu Apr 30 15:17:04 GMT+05:30 2020 >> > > > To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> > > > Subject: [GNC] Reporting transactions >> > > > >> > > > I have another question related to UK tax reporting obligations. >> > > > >> > > > In the UK we can have a type of asset called a SIPP (Self-invested >> > > Personal >> > > > Pension). You pay money into a SIPP with the idea of building up an >> > > income >> > > > for your retirement. The carrot is, you get a tax rebate. For >> example >> > if >> > > > you >> > > > pay 100 GBP into the SIPP, the government pays in another 25 GBP. >> > > > >> > > > For our annual tax reports, we have to report the total added to the >> > SIPP >> > > > during the tax year: the amount we pay in personally, plus the >> amount >> > > that >> > > > the government pays in, i.e. 125 GBP in the above example. >> > > > >> > > > This is easy to do if I keep the SIPP in a separate GC book. Then >> all >> > > > personal contributions and the Government's additional contributions >> > can >> > > be >> > > > put into the same income account. Easy. What's not so good is that >> (a) >> > I >> > > no >> > > > longer have an overview of all assets in one book and (b) to do my >> one >> > > tax >> > > > report I have to do two separate GC tax reports. >> > > > >> > > > Is there a better solution? Either something that allows me to keep >> > > > everything in one book, or a way that allows reports to query two >> > books? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > Sent from: >> > > http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > gnucash-user mailing list >> > > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> > > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> > > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> > > > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> > > > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> > > > ----- >> > > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> > > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> gnucash-user mailing list >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> ----- >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> > _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
