I wouldn't classify sipp contributions as expense. You'd be incorrectly reducing your net worth whenever you contribute to it.
On Fri, 1 May 2020, 5:23 pm Ruaraidh Sackville Hamilton, < ruaraidh...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ah yes you are right! I didn't think of the case where an employer pays > directly into a SIPP. In that case it is clearly an income. Not in mine. > > Conceptually, it might be better thought of as a business expense. The > business is the SIPP and the government encourages investment in the > business by giving tax rebates on allowable business expenses. Payments > into the SIPP are reported in the tax report as expenses rather than as > income. And a SIPP is not like other assets: I can't sell it or trade it, > and there are strict rules limiting when and how much income I can take > from it in retirement. So maybe we should look at the SIPP as its own > independent entity, with income to the SIPP being expenses to our other > assets, just as reported in tax reports. > > But that seems a theoretical discussion, and we have a sort of pragmatic > solution that works (even though I have to go outside of GnuCash to > calculate what to put in the tax form) > > Thanks again for enlightening comments! > > On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 16:30, D. <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Ah, then yes it's a terminology thing. In my own case, money from my > > income goes directly into the SIPP as a payroll deduction, so I just > > transfer from income into the SIPP. It can just as easily go from an > asset > > to another asset. > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > From: Ruaraidh Sackville Hamilton <ruaraidh...@gmail.com> > > Sent: Thu Apr 30 19:42:46 GMT+05:30 2020 > > To: "D." <sunfis...@yahoo.com> > > Cc: "D. via gnucash-user" <gnucash-user@gnucash.org> > > Subject: Re: [GNC] Reporting transactions > > > > Sorry David, I didn't mean to imply I prefer the second to the first > > option. I just thought it easier to show by editing one of your versions, > > and happened to pick the second. I could as easily have picked the first. > > > > In my reply I replaced your "Income:Me" with "Assets:my bank account". > The > > point is that, when the SIPP is in the same GC file as my other assets, > the > > transaction is from one asset (the bank account I used to pay into the > > SIPP) to another asset (my SIPP). It's not from an income account to the > > SIPP, so it can't appear in a report of income. > > > > If I keep the SIPP in a separate dedicated GC file, then no problem: my > > contribution appears in the main GC file as an expense against my bank > > account and as an income in the SIPP GC file. I just wondered if there > was > > a way of keeping all assets in one file. > > > > Ruaraidh > > > > On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 14:41, D. <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > ??? > > > > > > Perhaps this is a terminology thing, but aren't you just re-presenting > > the > > > second option I gave originally? > > > > > > Think of it another way: there are two sources for the funding of your > > > SIPP: your contribution, and the government's. How you handle your own > > > contribution depends on your workflow; the government is giving you > > money, > > > so that's an income account. I offered two methods of recording that > > > two-step; yours is a repetition of my second method. > > > > > > I personally use the first, since the two events are inextricably > linked > > > (the second never happens without the first). > > > > > > Or am I missing something? > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > From: Ruaraidh Sackville Hamilton <ruaraidh...@gmail.com> > > > Sent: Thu Apr 30 17:20:34 GMT+05:30 2020 > > > To: "D." <sunfis...@yahoo.com> > > > Cc: Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org> > > > Subject: Re: [GNC] Reporting transactions > > > > > > That covers it if the SIPP is in a separate GC file of its own, where > my > > > contribution is an income (and an expense from my bank account in the > > main > > > GC file, which I use to fund the contribution). > > > > > > But if it's all in one GC file we have > > > > > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Contribution Assets:SIPP £100 > > > My contribution Assets:my bank account £100 > > > > > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Govt Contribution Assets:SIPP £25 > > > Government contribution Income:GovContrib £25 > > > > > > Am I wrong? > > > > > > Ruaraidh > > > > > > On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 12:33, D. <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Set up an independent income account for the government > contributions: > > > > > > > > Income:GovContrib > > > > > > > > Then add either a split to your contribution for the government, > > > > > > > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Contribution Assets:SIPP £125 > > > > My contribution Income:Me £100 > > > > Government contribution Income:GovContrib £25 > > > > > > > > or a separate transaction, > > > > > > > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Contribution Assets:SIPP £100 > > > > My contribution Income:Me £100 > > > > > > > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Govt Contribution Assets:SIPP £25 > > > > Government contribution Income:GovContrib £25 > > > > > > > > That should cover it, yes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > > From: Ruaraidh <ruaraidh...@gmail.com> > > > > Sent: Thu Apr 30 15:17:04 GMT+05:30 2020 > > > > To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > > > Subject: [GNC] Reporting transactions > > > > > > > > I have another question related to UK tax reporting obligations. > > > > > > > > In the UK we can have a type of asset called a SIPP (Self-invested > > > Personal > > > > Pension). You pay money into a SIPP with the idea of building up an > > > income > > > > for your retirement. The carrot is, you get a tax rebate. For example > > if > > > > you > > > > pay 100 GBP into the SIPP, the government pays in another 25 GBP. > > > > > > > > For our annual tax reports, we have to report the total added to the > > SIPP > > > > during the tax year: the amount we pay in personally, plus the amount > > > that > > > > the government pays in, i.e. 125 GBP in the above example. > > > > > > > > This is easy to do if I keep the SIPP in a separate GC book. Then all > > > > personal contributions and the Government's additional contributions > > can > > > be > > > > put into the same income account. Easy. What's not so good is that > (a) > > I > > > no > > > > longer have an overview of all assets in one book and (b) to do my > one > > > tax > > > > report I have to do two separate GC tax reports. > > > > > > > > Is there a better solution? Either something that allows me to keep > > > > everything in one book, or a way that allows reports to query two > > books? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Sent from: > > > http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > gnucash-user mailing list > > > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > > > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > > > > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > > > > ----- > > > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > ----- > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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