On Sat, 17 Dec 2016 15:35:38 +0100, Heiko Baums wrote: > Am 17.12.2016 um 14:17 schrieb Neil Bothwick: > > > I'm running the Debian 7 version of Raspbian on a number of Pis, all > > without systemd. Yes, I am happy using systemd, but I can't be arsed > > changing them when they continue to work perfectly well. > > Then explain me how this is done. Btw., Debian's and Raspbian's software > repositories are somewhat outdated. But that's a different Debian > related subject.
If you can't work that out for yourself, what are you doing running Gentoo. I'm stating it can be done, I have neither the time nor the inclination to document it. > > Boot from a live CD, like Ubuntu, and read the journals. There's > > always a solution that doesn't involve flaming. > > Why would I boot from a Live CD if I have a PC with an installed OS > particularly just to be able to read some simple log files? > > So, no that's not a reasonable solution. I never claimed it was reasonable, you asked for a way to read them if you don't have systemd installed and I suggested a way. It takes seconds to boot a VM from an Ubuntu ISO. No, it's not elegant, but it does solve the problem. I do think a standalone reader for systemd journals would be a nice idea, but I'm not going to code it and I'm certainly not going to demand t as a right. > And that doesn't have anything to do with flaming. But that's typical > for those Poettering fanboys, too, since the beginning. They ask for > "technical" arguments. If "technical" arguments are given to them, then > those arguments suddenly are no technical arguments. Then this is > flaming. And Poettering and his fanboys just insult their critics, even > in the official "technical" systemd documentation. Technical arguments as opposed to to the ad hominem arguments you prefer? I am not a fanboy, I like some of the features of systemd while others really annoy me. I run a several systems without systemd simply because I see no point in changing a working system. But if you intend to dismiss anyone with a standpoint that does not precisely align with yours as a fanboy, there is no point in continuing this discussion. I am sorry that the pointers I gave do not meet your exacting standards and promise to refrain from doing so again. > > When I first tried systemd, I wasn't confident of my ability to work > > with the journal, so I installed syslog-ng and had traditional log > > files alongside the journal. In fact I ran it like that for quite > > some because the log monitor I was using didn't work with the > > journal. > > Yes, that's the solution. Install an old very well tested and useful > system logger which does the job perfectly on its own alongside of a > crappy system logger just to be able to read the binary log files again > with simple system tools which come along with EVERY distro like cat, > less, grep etc. And running two programs which have the same purpose in > the background don't need more system resources then just running one of > them, particularly on hardware like the Pi? > > Did you and the other Poettering fanboys think about this logic? I guess > not. Excellent, adding distortion to the ad hominem insults. I was simply pointing out that systemd does not preclude the use of an alternative logger. > > I never said it was easy. > > Should be easy. Why? Because you demand so? -- Neil Bothwick Fragile. Do not turn umop ap1sdn!
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