On 02/08/2016 10:09 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Anthony G. Basile <bluen...@gentoo.org> wrote: >> >> what does in-house tool mean? i'm a gentoo developer but i also work >> on an upstream project (eudev) that 14 distros use. >> >> some of the criticism given here are my concerns as well and i've >> spoken with the various distros --- slack, parted magic, puppy. they >> get what's going on and they still see eudev is the best way forward >> for now. it may not be in the future, but neither will a udev >> extracted from a compiled full systemd codebase. > > How many of those 14 distros have more than 14 users? > > Look, I get it, some people don't like systemd. That's fine. > However, you have to realize at this point that a non-systemd > configuration is anything but mainstream. There will always be a > "poppyseed linux" whose purpose in life seems to be to preserve linux > without sysfs or some other obscure practice. I just think that > Gentoo should offer the choice to do those things, but have a more > mainstream set of defaults.
The new mainstream is docker. Docker recently switched to Alpine Linux, which uses OpenRC+eudev: https://www.brianchristner.io/docker-is-moving-to-alpine-linux/ That dwarfs whatever marketshare systemd has in the same way that Android+iOS dwarfed whatever marketshare Windows has. If userbase is what matters to you, then OpenRC+eudev won. It is the logical choice for those concerned about userbase because that is what the Linux ecosystem will be using going forward. I do not think userbase should be the sole means by which we make decisions, but those that think otherwise should now join the eudev+OpenRC camp. It has the bigger userbase share going forward. To put it another way, the war is over. Welcome abroad. :) >> >> it needs to be in the new stage4s to make a bootable system. imo a >> stage4 should be bootable modulo a kernel. >> > > Sure, a stage4 based on systemd makes a lot of sense. I don't really > see the point in leaving a kernel out though - I'd even stick a > precompiled one in /boot on top of having the sources installed. Why > not make a stage4 install something that takes all of 5 minutes? > > I think that offering an eudev-based distro as a default just doesn't > make sense in 2016. I just think the better road to take is to start > treating virtual/udev as something that gets installed post-stage3. > We can't even get people to agree on vi vs emacs as a default. We can leave virtual/udev out of stage3, but that doesn't diminish the need to select sensible default for the virtual/udev provider.
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