-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 12/10/15 15:56, Matt Turner wrote: > On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 9:44 PM, wraeth <wra...@wraeth.id.au> > wrote: >> This education process was implemented in a way that >> indiscriminately pointed the finger at contributors, developer >> and user alike, sometimes > > I think this confirms my belief -- that people are misinterpreting > a mistake as a personal failing and are upset by it being addressed > in (a new) public forum.
Yes and no. It is part of it (see below) but not the only part. >> I am not saying feedback is bad. I am not saying that learning to >> do better is bad. > > Okay, so it's not about embarrassment or having one's work > scrutinized. For me personally, no, but see below. >> What I am saying is that until now contributors to Gentoo have >> received feedback on their work in channels that they elected, >> whether it was IRC, Bugzilla, Pull Requests or E-Mail; until >> suddenly their work (or more accurately, the Reviewers teams >> issues with their work) were getting broadcast to anyone who is >> subscribed to this list, regardless of if that contributor wanted >> that kind of public critiquing. >> >> I hope this clears up this apparent misunderstanding. > > The problem is that the review is being done in... a different > forum that you expect? Or that it's a forum that more people are > reading? That is also part of it - I submit something and expect perhaps a bug or a ping on IRC; instead I get my submission sent to a public list with someone telling me what I did wrong. Now put that in the perspective of someone for whom it's their first contribution to a major project. What are the chances they'll contribute a second time? If they new beforehand that it was going to a public list, then it changes - knowing this, they implicitly (or explicitly) acknowledge that they're going to publicly critiqued; but this was a sudden change with arguable comments within these reviews. Ever had your teacher stand you in front of the class, hold up your workbook and say "this is wrong"? > I don't know -- a lot of the value is precisely that -- because > it's in on gentoo-dev@, everyone reading can learning from others' > experiences, whereas if the reviews were in private emails or even > public bugzilla most people likely wouldn't see them. I can understand this sentiment - for a community education project, having it's input tucked away in some dark corner doesn't benefit anyone. But having one's contribution unexpectedly published as an example, good or bad, can be very discouraging; particularly if some of the comments are preferential or simply wrong (which newer contributors may not recognise). Peer review is also a good thing, but again it's something that is typically entered into with the knowledge that it will be such. If you asked someone privately for their opinion on something you created and they proceeded to share it around and get input from everyone else, it would discourage you from asking that friend again, wouldn't it? As I've mentioned, I welcome feedback for the improvement it brings both Gentoo and my own work and I think the concept of the Reviewers project is a great one; but there is a difference between education and auditing; and suddenly posting everyone's mistakes, however well intentioned you are, is certainly more vinegar than honey. Personally, I like the idea of the "top improvements of the week" as an aggregate of common possible improvements, or even perhaps an opt-in participation to have one's code reviewed and published could work, too - there are a number of ways (and not mutually exclusive ones) that this could be done, and I look forward to improving my coding as a result of the project in the future. Kind Regards; - -- Sam Jorna (wraeth) <wra...@wraeth.id.au> GnuPG Key: B2D9F759 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlYbeScACgkQXcRKerLZ91k+5gD+KD468i93dwE7eatHqk2nPbjk wAFjhuKY2KAnNMh3NvIA+wbeoYAiAHjUot4j9X1mg9mHMEAOGe7qexdwXUvEvR91 =wU4M -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
